Selamat Datang Ke Blog Adil,Semoga pengunjung ke blog ini baik-baik belaka dan tidak menimbulkan keadaan yang kurang elok. Sila bersopan menyaksikan keadaan harian yang berlaku di sekeliling kita, khususnya dengan pembangunan Negeri sarawak.
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Selamat Datang Ke Blog Adil, Semoga pengunjung ke blog ini baik-baik belaka dan tidak menimbulkan keadaan yang kurang elok. Sila bersopan menyaksikan keadaan harian yang berlaku di sekeliling kita, khususnya dengan pembangunan Negeri sarawak. |
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(Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 10:35 pagi) [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] PEMASYHURAN DARIPADA TUAN SPEAKER Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate you for your election by the people to represent them in this Honourable august House. Your election has certainly brought you into an atmosphere where you are expected to perform vital roles towards the fulfillment of the trust given by the people. Hence, as elected representatives of the people, you are aware of the needs and aspiration of those whom you represent. Honourable Members, on seating arrangement of Members. Under Standing Order 2 of the Dewan’s Standing Orders, it reads as follows: “On the first day of the meeting of the Dewan after a general election or prorogation and thereafter, members shall be seated in accordance with such arrangements as may be determined by the Speaker whose decision thereon shall be final.” The Chair had already determined the seating arrangements for all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat in this august House. The seating plan has been issued by the Dewan secretariat under the direction of the Chair. All Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat are now seated in accordance with the arrangement determined by the Chair and that decision is final. It is noted from press statements that some quarters of the opposition are not satisfied with the seating arrangements. A letter had been received from someone whom the Chair considers to be a stranger, that is not a member of this august House, calling for certain members of the opposition who belong to the Democratic Action Party to be seated together in accordance with “parliamentary convention and precedence practised by all commonwealth countries”. In the Dewan Undangan Negeri Sarawak, Government Ministers and Assistant Ministers are seated together so that they have the assistance of the government officials during the sitting. These officials are seated behind the government benchers. The Constitution and Standing Orders recognized the constitutional position of the government comprising ministers and assistant ministers. Unlike in the United Kingdom where the opposition is an alternative government, the opposition parties in Sarawak do not have the status as an alternative government. Neither the Standing Orders nor the State Constitution nor the DUN (Privileges, Immunities and Powers) Ordinance recognizes the position of the opposition as an alternative government. Therefore, opposition members must be considered a group in determining their seating arrangements in the same way as government backbenchers. Like government backbenchers who belong to different component parties are not seated together in this Dewan on the basis that they are from one component party or another in the government, the opposition should not be seated on the basis that some of the members belong to one political party within the opposition. The chair has to take cognizance of the seniority of some of members over their junior counterparts. Such seniority is reflected in the seating arrangement. The Honourable Member for Ngemah has been a Member of this Honourable House for four terms, making it nearly towards a total of 20 years while those with the exception of Honourable Member for Kidurong and Honourable Member for Bukit Assek are just at the beginning of their first term. On dress and ceremonial uniform. Standing Order 37(a) provides that all members shall enter, leave and behave in the Dewan with decorum. Standing Order 89 provides that all matters not specifically provided for in the Standing Orders shall be regulated in such a manner not inconsistent with Standing Orders as the Speaker may from time to time direct. To maintain proper decorum and to preserve the dignity and respect of all members of this House on all ceremonial occasions such as the opening of the first sitting of the Dewan in each session by Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri, all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat are required to wear ceremonial uniforms. The design and features of the uniform are ceremonial and traditional. What comprises has been known to all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat. When the ceremonial uniform is worn, it must be used in full including the hat. To maintain decorum, dignity and respect for the ceremonial uniform, I consider it necessary for the Chair to make a ruling that when wearing the official ceremonial uniform, all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat must wear the full uniform. This ruling takes effect from today. Hence, any Ahli Yang Berhormat who fails to comply or disobey this ruling will face appropriate censure prescribed by the Standing Orders for disobeying a ruling of the Chair. On question time, Standing Order 19(4) provides that “Unless the Speaker otherwise determines, no more than one hour shall be allocated for questions at each sitting.” For this meeting of the Dewan, the Chair shall continue to allow one hour for question time during each sitting. The Chair finds no cogent reason for extending the length of question time. It is felt that one hour of question time is adequate, having regard to the fact that in the Dewan Rakyat which has 219 Members, that is three times the membership of this august House, the length of question time was only 1½ hours. The Westminster Parliament, Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, which is a mother of all Commonwealth parliaments, that is the House of Commons, has 646 members of parliament. The question time for oral questions is only one hour. In the Parliament of Australia, the House of Representatives has 150 Members. The question time is between one hour and one hour twenty minutes. To quote a letter from the Clerk of Parliament of Australia dated 20th July, 2006 addressed to this Dewan, “It is technically within the discretion of the government to end it at any time.” In the Locke Saba, which is the Lower House of India, with about 500 Members, the Speaker receives questions totaling 800 a day. This was reduced to 400 a day. This information was intimated to me by the Secretary of Locke Saba I personally met during the CPA Conference. So during question time in the Indian Parliament with 400 questions a day, nearly twice the number of questions which this Dewan received during its entire meeting, the question time has been one hour which may be extended to another 30 minutes. Honourable Members, under Standing Order 12(1), government business shall take precedence over private members’ business and under Standing Order 12(2), government business shall be set down in such order as the government thinks fit and communicate to the Secretary. Subject to what I have just stated, as regards the precedence of government business over private members’ business, the order of business to be taken at each meeting shall be determined by the Speaker. This is stated under Standing Order 12(6). The government has communicated with the Secretary that three days, that is Wednesday, Thursday and Friday this week, after question time, be devoted to debate on the Motion of Thanks to Tuan Yang Terutama’s speech and the ministers’ replies will take the whole of the remaining three days next week of this sitting. This means that private members’ business which must not take precedence over government business can be accommodated only at the end of government business on Monday and Tuesday of this week. The only non-government business are the Motions which the Chair has received under Standing Order 23 from several Yang Berhormat and these are set down for deliberation and debate at the end of today, that is Monday, 24th July, 2006 and also end of tomorrow, Tuesday. Any private member’s motion not disposed of will be dealt with in accordance with Standing Order 12(5). Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker … Tuan Speaker: Ya. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I would like to make a reply. Tuan Speaker: That is my ruling. Your reply can be in the motion. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: No, the motion does not concern the issue of the seating arrangement. There is no motion on the order paper of today, even up to today, concerning seating arrangement. Tuan Speaker: Ya, that is my ruling. We shall proceed with the day’s business. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN - BACAAN KALI YANG PERTAMA SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY (2005) BILL, 2006 Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to introduce the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006 and that this be read a first time. Bill read a first time Menteri Kewangan Kedua dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to give notice that the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006 be read a second time at the same sitting. FOREST (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I am representing the Yang Amat Berhormat the Chief Minister. I beg to introduce the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006 and be read a first time. Bill read a first time Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to give notice that the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time at the same sitting. SARAWAK TIMBER INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to introduce the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 and be read a first time. Bill read a first time Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): And I would like to give notice that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time on the 25th July, 2006. WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): I beg to introduce the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 and be read a first time. Bill read a first time Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): And I beg to give notice that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time on the 25th July, 2006. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN - BACAAN KALI YANG KEDUA SUPPLEMENTARY SUPPLY (2005) BILL, 2006 Menteri Kewangan Kedua dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006 as contained in the Command Paper No. 1 of 2006 laid on the table on 24th July, 2006 be read a second time. The First Supplementary Estimates of the Ordinary Expenditure, 2005 as contained in the Command Paper No. 1 of 2006 comprising an additional sum of RM24,714,380 is laid before the House in pursuant to Article 32 of the State Constitution. This additional expenditure is to meet the cost of various services incurred by various ministries and departments for which funds were not provided for or insufficiently provided for in the 2005 Estimates. Detail of the additional expenditure is provided in the Command Paper No. 2 of 2006. Tuan Speaker, I beg to move. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: The question is that the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006 be read a second time. Question put and agreed to Bill read a second time USUL UNTUK MEMBAWA RESOLUSI ANGGARAN PERBELANJAAN PEMBANGUNAN TAMBAHAN KEDUA 2005 KEPADA JAWATANKUASA PERBEKALAN Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the following motions be referred to the Committee of Supply. That this Dewan resolves to refer the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure, 2005 as contained in Command Paper No. 3 of 2006 laid on the table on 24th July, 2006. Command Paper No. 3 of 2006 is laid before the House in pursuant to Section 4(2) of the Development Funds Act, 1966. As presented therein, there are 35 subheads for which the additional provisions are required. The total additional allocation required is RM25,047,550. The amount required has been vired from savings among the subheads concerned and advanced from the Contingencies Advance. The additional allocation is to meet the following Heads of Expenditure: Head D64 Government Buildings RM50 Head D66 Roads and bridges RM20 Head D69 Ports RM10 Heads D71 Recreational facilities RM10 Head D72 Social welfare RM20 Head D73 Tourism RM10 Head D78 Water Supply RM170 Head D81 Housing and resettlement RM25,000,060 Head D82 Industries and Investments RM50 Head D83 Land development and growth centers RM10 Head D84 Feasibility studies RM47,100 Head D85 Other development projects RM40 Totalling: RM25,047,550.00 Details on the additional expenditure is provided in Command Paper No. 4 of 2006. Tuan Speaker, I beg to move. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, the question before the dewan is that the motion (interruption) Y. B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, point of order, I have given notice under Standing Order 65 (5) to the Secretary which reads; “Every member who wishes to raise any matter or to suggest the reconsideration of any matter by the government shall give to the Secretary notice in writing of that matter and of the head, subheads and an item/items which relate to it”. Tuan Speaker, I have given pursuant to Standing Order 65 (5), a notice that I wish to raise matters relating to Head D81 subhead 05, Housing and Resettlement. Can I have the Honourable Minister explain the subhead 05, sum required RM25 million? I have read the Command Paper No. 4 of 2006 and I do not seem to understand what has been stated inside there, Tuan Speaker. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y. B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Let me make my ruling, Standing Order 65, govern Supply Bill. The Supply Bill had been approved earlier on. This is not a motion on the Supply Bill. This is a motion on Supplementary Supply which is governed under Standing Order 67. Under Standing Order 67 (4), that it shall be without amendment or debate and under (4), (5), (6), (7), (  , (9), this is what is governing Supplementary Supply and I have not received your notice. I only receive now. Y. B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: By Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa. Y. B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: There are two notices, Tuan Speaker. One given by Kota Sentosa, the other by Bukit Assek. Tuan Speaker: I don’t receive. Y. B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: One is on a white paper, the other one is in the official letterhead of the Dewan Undangan Negeri. The orderly passed it on; I saw it with my own eyes. Tuan Speaker: I don’t have it here. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y. B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, since you have not received any notice, I would like to draw the attention, I would like to draw the Honourable Member for Bukit Assek, to Standing Order 68 which is also part of the Article 33(4) of the State Constitution; “A bill may be introduced to authorize expenditure for part of the financial year and the motion on the second reading of the bill shall be decided without debate”. Y. B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: No qualms about Standing Order 68, Tuan Speaker. Without amendment or debate does not mean that you cannot seek for clarification. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, actually, under Standing Order 67, if Tuan Speaker, will refer to Standing Order 67 (6), it refers, it says that the procedure laid down in Standing Order 65 (5) to (9) and Standing Order 66 (2) to (19) shall with the necessary modification apply to the consideration of Supplementary estimates of ordinary and development expenditure. Therefore, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Bukit Assek says that Standing Order 65(5) is correct and therefore since we have given our notices… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Your notice or Bukit Assek’s notice. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Both our notices. Tuan Speaker: Your notice, I just received, its two days. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, because we just received the bill. We just received all these Command Papers this morning. How do you expect us to submit our notices, the butiran-butiran all these, we just received this morning. Tuan Speaker: Command Papers shall be laid on the table as soon as necessary. That is when the Dewan receives it. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Then our notices will be submitted as soon as, is it before the resumption of second reading… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I rule… (Interruption) Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That was in the Standing Order before the resumption of the second reading… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I rule that the Minister continues. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, during the first reading of the second act, the second Rang Undang-Undang, I have already submitted it to the Secretary and that was done in accordance with the Standing Order. We can’t just ignore the Standing Order. No, there is an expenditure involving RM1.9 million paid to a consultancy fee, as a consultancy fee, who is the consultant? (Interruption) Y. B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Tuan Speaker, you have made the ruling. Can you ask the … (Interruption) Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, this is Standing Order … What Standing Order are standing up for? (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I have made my ruling, the Minister continues. That’s it. Honourable Minister, please proceed. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y. B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the following motion be referred to the Committee of Supply. That this Dewan resolves to refer the first supplementary estimates of development expenditure, 2006 as contained in the Command Paper No. 5, 2006 as laid on the table on 24th July, 2006. Command Paper No. 5 of 2006 is laid before the House in pursuant to Section 4(2) of the Development Funds Act 1966. As presented therein, there are 10 subheads for which additional sum of RM100, 949,500 is required to meet the followings: (1) RM64, 126,500 is required for water supplies to match the Federal approval loan for 2006 which will be released to the state on reimbursable basis. (2) RM26,023,000.00 is required as a provision to Housing Development Corporation. Out of this RM20,023,000 is a back to back Federal loan. This amount has been received by the state and as such, the same amount has to be provided in the State Budget this year to enable it to be released to the Housing Development Corporation. Another RM6 million is state loan for Longhouse Loan Scheme. (3) RM10,800,000 is for Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation of which RM10 million is to reimburse the timber development premium collected and RM800,000 is a grant to Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation for providing as well as for the maintenance of office space occupied by government ministries and departments in Wisma Sumber Alam. Details on the additional expenditure is provided in the Command Paper No. 6 of 2006. Tuan Speaker, I beg to move. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: The question before Dewan is that the Motion standing in the Order Paper in the Name of the Minister for Finance II and Minister for Urban Development and Tourism be referred to the Committee of Supply. Question put and agreed to Tuan Speaker: The Dewan will now resolve into the Committee of Supply to consider the Supplementary Supply (2005), Bill, 2006, the Motion the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 and the Motion on the First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure, 2006 Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Standing Order 65(5), there is no discretion given to Tuan Speaker whether to allow or disallow a debate. Now, once notice has been given there must be debate on the bill. Don’t hide behind it. Tuan Speaker: 67(6), no debate allowed on amendment. Proceed. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no there is no discretion. Where is the discretion? Tuan Speaker: We shall move to the Committee of Supply. Question put and agreed to USUL UNTUK MEMBAWA RESOLUSI ANGGARAN PERBELANJAAN PEMBANGUNAN TAMBAHAN PERTAMA 2006 KEPADA JAWATANKUASA PERBEKALAN Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006. The Second Supplementary Estimates of Ordinary Expenditure 2005, the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 and First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure, 2006 and agreed to without amendment. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under Standing Order 67 (5), there is a time when we debate. There is a time of debate when the Supplementary Supply Bill has been read a second time and a motion for the supplementary development estimate has been agreed to. The Dewan shall resolve itself into the Committee of Supply to consider the Supplementary Supply Bill and Supplementary Estimates of development estimates and the resolution relating thereto. Thereafter, (vi) applies, (vi) is a procedure laid down to debate and notice has been given. Tuan Speaker: I am making my ruling under Standing Order 67 (6), no debate or amendment. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Why protecting the government so much? Why would? Why Tuan Speaker? Why are you covering up all these butiran-butiran, RM1.595 million, consultancy fee? Pay to who? (Interruption) COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY [Tuan Pengerusi mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Pengerusi: Honourable Members, we are now considering Command Papers No.1 of 2006, No.3 of 2006 and No.5 of 2006 together with the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006. Honourable Members, we will now consider Command paper No. 1 of 2006. The question is that the amount in all Heads as set forth in the Second Supplementary Estimates of Ordinary Expenditure 2005 be approved. Question put and agreed to The Second Supplementary Estimates of Ordinary Expenditure 2005 is approved Tuan Pengerusi: Honourable Members, we will now consider Command paper No. 3 of 2006. The question is that the amount in all Heads as set forth in the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 be approved. Question put and agreed to The Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 be approved Tuan Pengerusi: Honourable Members, we will now consider Command paper No. 5 of 2006. The question is that the amount in all Heads as set forth in the First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2006 be approved. Question put and agreed to The First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2006 be approved Schedule Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that the schedule be ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedule is ordered to stand part of the bill Clauses 1 and 2 Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that Clauses 1 and 2 be order to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 1 and 2 are ordered to stand part of the bill Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan resumes. HOUSE RESUMED [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006, the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 and the First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2006 and agreed to without amendment. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI YANG KETIGA SUPPLEMENTARARY SUPPLY (2005) BILL, 2006 Menteri Kewangan Kedua dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006 be now a read third time and do pass. Tuan Speaker: The question before the Dewan is that the Supplementary Supply (2005) Bill, 2006 be read a third time and do pass. Question put and agreed to Bill read a third time and passed USUL UNTUK MELULUS ANGGARAN PERBELANJAAN PEMBANGUNAN TAMBAHAN KEDUA 2005 Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that this Dewan resolves to approve the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 as contained in Command Paper No.3 of 2006 as laid on the Table on 24 July 2006. Tuan Speaker: Can I have another Minister to second. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: The question before the Dewan is that the Dewan resolves to approve the Second Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2005 as contained in Command Paper No.3 of 2006 as laid on the Table on 24th July, 2006 be approved. Question put and motion agreed to USUL UNTUK MELULUS ANGGARAN PERBELANJAAN PEMBANGUNAN TAMBAHAN PERTAMA 2006 Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that this Dewan resolves to approve the First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2006 as contained in Command Paper No.5 of 2006 as laid on the Table on 24 July 2006. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: The question before the Dewan is that the Dewan resolves to approve the First Supplementary Estimates of Development Expenditure 2006 as contained in Command Paper No.5 of 2006 as laid on the Table on 24th July, 2006 be approved. Question put and motion agreed to RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI KEDUA FOREST (AMENDMENT) BILL 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, saya mohon untuk mengusulkan Rang Undang-Undang untuk meminda Ordinan Hutan dibaca buat kali yang kedua. Tuan Speaker, Ordinan Hutan ialah satu undang-undang, principle and I believe yang mengawal selia penebangan dan pengambilan sumber atau hasil hutan daripada tanah kerajaan, reserve hutan, hutan terkawal serta hutan yang terletak di atas tanah atau hakmilik termasuk tanah yang dipindahmilik untuk tujuan ladang kelapa sawit dan hutan yang ditanam. Ordinan tersebut juga mengawal selia penggunaan produk serta sumber kayu yang diambil daripada hutan kita. Dalam erti kata lain, objektif utama Ordinan tersebut ialah untuk mengawal selia industri perkayuan utama di negeri ini. Tuan Speaker, under Section 66 of the Ordinance, all sawmill had to be licensed by the Director of Forest as the timber taken or removed from the forest unless exported are sent to sawmill to be sawn or cut. Sawmill are considered the first recipients of timber taken from the forest. Tuan Speaker, the existing definition of sawmills in the Forest Ordinance covers also plants where timber is used for the manufacture or production of marketable products including furniture or other articles. It is felt that the role of the Director of Forest ought to be confined to regulating and licensing upstream timber industries, such as logging, in the sawing or cutting or conversion of logs into sawn timber. Any plant or facility used for the processing of timber or manufacture of timber products ought to be regulated by Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (STIDC) in accordance with STIDC’s statutory mandate. Tuan Speaker, by reason of the existing definition in the Ordinance for the term sawmill which is extended to cover even processing and manufacturing facilities which also need to be registered with STIDC. There is an obvious overlapping of functions between the Director of Forest and STIDC. A clear autonomy of function between the two regulatory authorities, one for upstream timber activities and the other for downstream activities is needed to avoid duplicity of functions, confusion as well as to facilitate enforcement of the relevant laws and regulations. Tuan Speaker, thus it is proposed to amend the Forest Ordinance to provide for a new definition of sawmill to cover only plant or facility, where logs are cut or converted into sawn timber. If the facility of premise is undertaking the processing or manufacturing of sawn timber or other timber products, it would be considered as a timber industry which must be registered with STIDC and regulated or controlled by STIDC. Tuan Speaker, the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006, is now before this august House is to amend that Ordinance to meet the objective, which I have just outlined. The explanatory statement of the said Bill set out the effect and the meaning to the various clauses. Tuan Speaker, apart from providing a new definition of sawmill, the Bill seek to amend Section 59 of the Ordinance which as it presently stand only requires a license to be obtained by the proprietor of alienated land if he were to fell timber trees on his land for sale or bartered. Under the proposed amendment if the proprietor of such land wants to cut or fell for his own commercial use, for instance making furniture, boat or other timber products, he ought to have a license from the Director and pays royalty to the government for the timber he gets. The proposed amendment to Section 66, which provides a better regulatory framework for sawmill including the requirement that such sawmill be built as such approved by the Director in consultation with the State Planning Authority. Such a requirement is needed to prevent sawmill being built in places where they could purchase logs from illegal or questionable sources and thus could help to curb illegal logging activities. License holders must keep proper numbers of timber purchased for their sawmill operation including the sources thereof and provide records of timber output. Such records will have to be produced for inspection whenever required by the Director or a person duly authorized by him to demand such inspection. Tuan Speaker, pindaan yang dicadangkan akan memberikan sebuah rangka kawalselia dan sistem kilang papan yang lebih baik serta menghapuskan fungsi-fungsi bertindih di antara Pengarah Hutan dan PUSAKA. Jika ianya dilaksana dan dikuatkuasa dengan betul ianya boleh membantu untuk mengekang aktiviti pembalakkan haram. Tuan Speaker, saya mohon agar semua Ahli Yang Berhormat dapat memberi sokongan padu terhadap rang undang-undang ini. Saya memohon untuk mengusulkannya. Tuan Speaker: Any Ministers to second? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-ahli Yang Berhormat, before I call any Honourable Members to speak, I would like to draw your attention to Standing Order 32(1) and 34(1). This is an Amendment Bill, so please, confine your comments on the matters, just touch content or affected by amendments without opening all matters relating to the Principle Ordinance. So this is not a debate on the Principle Ordinance. It is an amendment. So confine your comments to the amendment. Any member wants to speak? Honourable Member for Bukit Assek. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Thank you, Tuan Speaker. I rise to take part in the debate pertaining to the Forests (Amendment) Bill, 2006 which I shall refer to as “the Bill” that was tabled by the Honourable Minister. The Bill seeks to amend the Forests Ordinance which I shall refer to as “the Ordinance” in certain respects. I shall take these amendments in turn: (1) Amendment of Section 2 of Ordinance Clause 2 of the Bill seeks to substitute the definition of “sawmill” with a new definition. It is of some concern. The new definition of “sawmill” will result in the exclusion of veneer and plywood mills. It also will exclude chemical treatment plants and kiln drying plants. In a plywood mill, timber logs are peeled into veneers and veneers are “bonded” and manufactured into timber products, i.e. plywood. In a chemical treatment plant, some diameter logs, small diameter logs are not cut, sawn or converted but are chemically impregnated with copper-based chemical. The kiln drying plants is not part of the sawmill. This seems to be confirmed by the amendment, Tuan Speaker, to Section 66 of the Ordinance. May the Honourable Minister assure this august House that veneer and plywood mills, chemical treatment plants and kiln drying plants, which are within the old definition of the word “sawmill”, are now no more a sawmill or part thereof. If the answer is in the positive, then what is the new policy reason for this amendment? (2) Amendment of Section 59 of Ordinance Clause 4 of the Bill seeks to amend Section 59 of the Ordinance by substituting the word “owner” in line 3 of the Proviso with the words “registered proprietor”. Now there are maybe wisdom in the amendment but if you compare with another amendment with another section you may not be able to see why. I cannot see the wisdom of this amendment particularly when a similar word “owner” appears in Section 60 of the Ordinance. No attempt is made to amend it. Is it intentional? May the Honourable Minister enlighten this august House. Also, there is a dire need to clarify whether the forest produce may be sawn or converted as building materials for the construction of workers’ living quarters. I was told that this has been a problem in the past years, where the land is alienated for oil palm plantation. I was also told that it is a problem in the recent years in the Licence for Planted Forests (LPF), where the licensee wants to use the logs extracted for the site clearing and converting them into sawn timber for the construction of workers’ quarters, germination beds, nurseries etc. (3) Amendment of Section 66 of Ordinance Tuan Speaker, by Clause 5(c) of the Bill, a new subsection is to be introduced. The licence issued under the new sub-section contains more conditions than the four listed under the old subsection. Again, Tuan Speaker, I will take the new subsections in turn: (1) New Sub-section 3(a): The new subsection 3(a) imposes the condition that the sawmill shall be built on a site approved by the Director in consultation with the State Planning Authority and in accordance with the plans approved by that authority. The law may as well say explicitly that the site has to be industrial land. I am concerned with this amendment. How often does the State Planning Authority meet over matters like this? I have received complaints that the meetings of the State Planning Authority are scarce and far in between. I do not know how true that is. If the consultation could not be expeditiously held or on a regular and transparent basis, investors may shun away thereby hampering the timber industry. Tuan Speaker, I am given to understand that previously sawmills could be set up on agricultural land or forest concession and such sawmill benefits small industrialists. But nowadays, sawmills can only be set up on industrial land. Converting agricultural land to industrial land is time consuming and expensive premium has to be paid. It requires AVTC to be approved by the State Planning Authority. Besides, industrial lands are concentrated in urban areas and are scarce in rural areas where most of the sawmills are to be found. I am given to understand these: there are more than 700 sawmills (timber yards, furniture mills and veneer mills) built on site not approved by the Director of Forests. Prior to 1992, these mills did not come under the jurisdiction of the Forests Department. In 1993, the law was amended and these mills were caught by the definition of “sawmill”. These mills were duly registered by the Forests Department in 1994 and till today, almost all of them are not licensed by the Director of Forests. The majority are not registered with STIDC because they do not have ICC approvals. The approvals by the Industrial Coordination Committee. The majority of these mills are not sited in the Timber Processing Zone or Industrial Park. The proposed amendment does not qualify by saying that it will not have retrospective effect. If it has, then the small operators above that I have mentioned will have to close shop, leading to much losses and suffering by the employees. The proposed amendment is therefore not fair as it benefits only the big companies and may kill off the small ones. (2) New Sub-section 3(b): The proposed new sub-section 3(b) imposes a condition in the licence of a maximum output of sawn timber from the sawmill. The old subsection is exactly the reverse; it says there must be a minimum output of timber. Is there anything wrong with our Sustainable Forest Management Policy that we were once so proud of? Is it because the policy has gone awry, therefore we must impose a maximum output? Though timber industry is now a twilight industry, in many places in Sarawak, including the central region, a lot of people still depend on employment in timber based industries for their living. If we impose a condition for maximum output, isn’t this putting an unnecessary damper and a strangling squeeze in this industry? Tuan Speaker, in the event that this condition is imposed because there is no longer the expected supply of timber, then explanation must be given to all Sarawakians why we are not able to sustain the timber extraction or production industry. Tuan Speaker, to impose a maximum output condition is in my view, retrogressive and unfair. (3) New Sub-Section 3(f): Condition (f) in the new Sub-section 3 provides a condition that was not in the old section. The new subsection 3(f) states, effectively, that a licence shall contain “such other terms and conditions that the Director may impose”. I believe that such a general and unspecific condition is not permissible, especially on matters relating to forest produce. It is an area where huge sums of money are involved. A lot of people are interested in obtaining timber licence. The wide powers can easily be abused. I am concerned that the wide powers will be fertile ground for breeding corruption. I have support in my concern from none other than the former Prime Minister, Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad who warned on 26th May 2005 that corruption was becoming a culture in Malaysia. He also said that we are slowly breaking through the ceiling on corruption. Tuan Speaker, the general and unspecific condition is also not acceptable to the licensees. It is completely subject to the whim and fancy of the Director. Certain conditions may be acceptable today that will attract the operators to invest. In time to come, the imposition of onerous conditions may force the operators to close shop, thereby resulting in millions of losses in investment and coping massive unemployment. A good law defines with specificity the conditions and not leave an absolute discretion to the Director. (4) New Sub-section 4(a): By clause 5(d) of the Bill, a new subsection 4(a) provides that any licence may be suspended for such period as the Director deems fit, or with the approval of the Minister, cancelled, if there has been a breach of any of the conditions of the licence. If the licensee operates by producing more than the maximum output of sawn timber, it is caught within this provision. A sawmill operator who achieves efficiency should not be penalised to suffer suspension of licence or worst still, cancellation. This cannot be right. This sort of indignity must be thrown at those licensees or operators who are inefficient. Sale of timber products draws in revenue. It allows circulation of money, which circulation produces the multiplier effect. Efficiency in an operation can only arise from quality management. No one in its right mind and no law should penalise direct operators who have managed their business well. Do we penalise a shipbuilder who has attained ISO qualifications by virtue of good management and efficiency in operation? This subsection is not right. What is the purpose? What is the wisdom behind all these, one must ask. The proposed amendment is also not compatible to Section 93 which provides that only the court can cancel or suspend a licence or permit. Needless to say, the court will hear out the aggrieved party. Even that, on suspension or cancellation under Section 93, the Director must give 2 months’ notice but that is not the requirement under the new sub-section. The power given to the Director under the amended Section 66(4) is too wide and draconian and will be subjected to abuse. No power should be given to an individual, including a Director, to impose a summary suspension or cancellation at his absolute discretion. This is not compatible with the rules of natural justice and the right to be heard, which we everybody knows, is called God’s law. (5) New Sub-section 4(b): Clause 5(d) of the Bill seeks to amend the Ordinance by substituting a new subsection (4)(b). Tuan Speaker, by virtue thereof, it is provided that a licence may be suspended for such period as the Director deems fit, or with the approval of the Minister, cancelled, if the holder of the licence or any of the person having charge of the management of the sawmill has been convicted or charged of a forest offence. The magical phrase is “charged or convicted of a forest offence”. I urge the Minister to note once again that the amendment uses the disjunctive word “or” in between “charged” and “convicted”. There are disjunctive words. It means that the Director does not have to wait for the person to be convicted in the Court of law. So long as he is charged, his licence is susceptible to be suspended or at worse, cancelled. This policy behind the amendment flies against the very fundament of the law of justice that a man is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Yet, with the proposed amendment, the moment he is charged, no waiting for his conviction is required. His licence may be suspended or at worse, cancelled. The door is wide open for abuse and corruption. The amendment is not right. What if after the trial, the licensee or person in charge of management is found innocent and not guilty. No amount of damages can restore the stigma of prosecution and his financial losses. We must bear in mind that in this country of ours, there is only… (Interruption). Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Clarification. Y.B Encik Wong Ho Leng: Go ahead. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am quite fascinated with the argument presented by our opposition leader that the Director has the power to even the court rules, to make a decision to penalise the licensee. Is this in your opinion, Yang Berhormat, are these laws passed with mere ignorant of the law of natural justice or that it was passed to give the Director an unchecked power to deal with any matters relating to the forestry or relating to the license that is one, and what goes around comes around. What goes around comes around. Like what Tun Mahathir our ex-Prime Minister is complaining now. He is now complaining about the lack of freedom of speech when during his twenty years tenure, he is the one who suppress the freedom of speech? Tuan Speaker: Are you raising point of information towards the Minister of, are you … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, I am raising the clarification. Do you agree, do you agree with what I’ve said? Tuan Speaker: You asked clarification, do not make a speech okay? I’ll give you your turn to speak. There’s no need for you to make a speech. You want to make clarification, you make clarification. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I think the Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa is seeking a clarification and I must put on record my appreciation for this clarification and my answer is plain and simple. In the event the law will be passed first ..(Interruption) Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entrie anak Muran): Tuan Speaker. What clarification? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: With the manners, manners. I am holding the floor Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: You are not giving way? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am not giving way. I am standing. Tuan Speaker: All right. So that’s your attitude. If you are on the floor you don’t give way? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: No, no no. That’s not my attitude. At least the procedure is, Ahli Yang Berhormat will stand up, get recognized by Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker will direct the attention to the person who is holding the floor. Are you giving way or not? Don’t barking. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Are you giving way? Are you giving way? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yes. Tuan Speaker: You are giving way. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Who is being recognized now? Tuan Speaker: He is asking for point of information. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Who is he? Ahli for what? Tuan Speaker: The Member for Marudi. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Thank you. I am giving way. Tuan Speaker: You are giving way. Okay. Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entrie anak Muran): Yes Tuan Speaker. What clarification, what relevant has it got with the ordinance when he is quoting about Tun Dr Mahathir about freedom of speech? Its nothing. It does not touch in the bill. Thank you Tuan Speaker. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, I take it that the clarification was just giving an example of freedom of speech. Anyway.. Tuan Speaker: We are on Forestry Bill not freedom of speech. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, the Forestry Bill provide in the new amendment, a new subsection whereby license may be susceptible to be suspended or cancelled when a person is facing a charge but not convicted yet. The freedom of speech comes in at a stage where he can go to the court and said “Look! I am innocent” Is that not freedom of speech. At least we must recognize God’s law, the law of natural justice. That’s what I am talking about. Thank you, Tuan Speaker, I can see you nodding your head. Tuan Speaker: You are more on burden of proof. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Burden of proof, Tuan Speaker, will coming in the court. The person who is in charge of this is facing a charge in court but before he is convicted, before he is asking the prosecutor to prove that he is guilty, he is already sentenced to death. His license may be revoked or at worse cancelled. Tuan Speaker: Where did it say it is sentenced to death? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Cancellation. Revocation of licence. Tuan Speaker: Yes, but not sentenced to death. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Not so serious may be lah. (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Not sentence to deathlah. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: With the licence. Tuan Speaker: Don’t exaggerated lah Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: With the licence. Tuan Speaker: Yes, yes. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Anyway now. In answer to Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa. In the event the law be passed because of the ignorance of the law of natural justice, it is high time that we wake up to that law. God’s law. God is watching us. We have our Doa everyday, every morning. Look at that. Now, where am I now? Tuan Speaker: Don’t get lost in your sawmill Yang Berhormat. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Only because that a bit too many of them. Now, I was asking your question. But if after the trial the licensee or person in charge of the management is found not guilty. No amount of damages can restore the stigma of prosecution and its financial losses. I was also saying we must bear in mind that in this beautiful country of ours, there is only penalty meted out in the court in the event of being found guilty. The court does not order compensation to the suspect for wrongful prosecution. Tuan Speaker, even in the light of conviction upon being charged, the period of suspension or cancellation must depend on the gravity of the offence and also subject to the principle of proportionality. We just cannot cancel or suspend a sawmill license when an extra cross cut saw is installed in the sawmill without the approval of the Director or the accused-licensee pleads guilty to rule 22 (5) ie removing royalty assessed logs without a removal pass. Tuan Speaker, if we are serious in this amendment, at least we must attempt to be fair. Wait till the person is convicted, the proper phrase should be “charged and convicted” and not “charged or convicted” The law must have the attributes of being clear, specific, just and fair. The law must not penalize anybody who has proven his industry and ability in management and employing more workers to churn up more money for the revenue. The present amendment bill suffers these flaws, and all my conscience, my colleagues and I cannot support the amendment. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Any other Member wishes to speak? Honourable Member for Bengoh. Y.B. Dr. Jerip anak Susil: Thank you, Tuan Speaker, for allowing me to participate in this debate on the Forest (Amendment) Bill 2006 and Ordinance. First of all, I would like to congratulate the Honourable Minister for Planning and Resource Management for presenting this bill in this august House. This amendment bill is, I found comprehensive, covering specific definitions, detail guidelines, issuance of licenses and guidelines on the suspension of licenses as well as the penalties involved as well. The amendment of Section 66 of the principle ordinances by adding new Subsection 3 and Subsection 4 is indeed very appropriate. I would like to highlight the case in point that is a new Subsection 3 (a) which stated that “a License issued under this section shall contain the following conditions: a) a sawmill shall be built on a site approved by the Director in consultation with the State Planning Authority and in accordance with the plan approved by that authority under Part 10 of the land code. This new regulation augurs well to ensure that environmental and esthetic landscapes of our city and residential areas did not encroached by these sawmills. There are occasions that the sawmill operators discharge their sawdusts in unsitely manner. Within our city and sometimes them even resort to burning them causing environmental pollution with smoke. Thus, these regulations ensure that sawmills should not be sited indiscriminately anywhere within residential areas or within the vicinity of the city or town but be sited in appropriate areas. While, I fully agree that there must be a consultation with the State Planning Authority, I would like to express my concern that in such process, there can be undue delay. I propose that the process of consultation be expedited and that the approval be given as soon as it is fitting to avoid frustration of the waiting by the applicants. Tuan Speaker, the new Subsection 4 of Section 66 is another appropriate amendment. This is with regard to the suspension of license. Any license issued under this subsection (i) may be suspended for such period as the Director deems fit, I repeat, as the Director deems fit or with approval of the Minister cancel if. May I draw attention to subsection C(i): if holder of the license is found to have employed in his sawmill any person who is non-resident employee unless the person has the requisite pass, permit or authorization under the Immigration or the Labor Ordinances to work in the sawmill or they have permitted such a person to remain or stay in the sawmill or in any premises or property whatsoever belonging to or under his control”. This regulation is well in tandem with our security measures of our state. In view of the escalating crime incidences and significant number of these cases, a number of these cases are due to these illegal immigrants. However, this subsection for suspension of licenses does not take into account the offences of the operators of these sawmills when there is environmental impact due to poor handling of their sawmills waste. Some resolve to burn the sawdust causing air pollution others may discharge them into the nearby streams. I propose that thus regulation to suspend or terminate the license give cognition to these facts. For these, regular inspection of these sawmills should be carried out that the surrounding environment impact be un-adversed. Tuan Speaker, as a medical practitioner I see significant number of sawmill accidents, with workers having cuts, wounds and even amputated fingertips, wood splinters in their eyes and cut wounds in their heads due to falling planks. What it indicates is that the safety and health policies of these sawmill are inadequate and not in compliance with the Occupational Safety and Health Act 1994 or OSHA 94. Some of these sawmills may not even be paying SOCSO for their employees. Let me say that the sawmill is an extremely hazardous place to work in. There is physical hazard or dust and smoke, blades or saw benches and unagronomic working environment. Thus, it is pertinent that sawmill waste to be handled well in compliance to the guidelines by NREB and machines be installed in accordance to the Factories Machinery Act of 1967. In such situation, I propose that issuance of license and its suspension should include environmental surveillance and the occupational safety and health management system to be emplaced and compliance with OSHA 94. In such then, we will ensure minimal environmental adverse impact and occupational injuries. With this note, Tuan Speaker, I stand to give support for this Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member who wishes to speak? I repeat, any other Honourable Member who wishes to speak before I call the Minister to wind up. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: I would like to discuss this amendment. To me there seems to be some confusion from the Member for Bukit Assek on what exactly is the subject matter of this amendment. I will deal with that at the later stage. If you get the total picture, the purpose of this amendment is because the government is concerned with perhaps inefficient monitoring of the timber industry so that the better system would be to divide jurisdiction which has been overlapping to make a clear distinction between the jurisdiction of the Director of Forest and STIDC. When we talk about the timber industry, we talk about the process from felling the timber to the finished products, from kayu di dalam hutan misalnya jadi kerusi ataupun meja. Selama-lama ini sebelum STIDC ditubuhkan, memanglah tugas, tanggungjawab Jabatan Hutan seluruhnya dari punca sampai ke hujung. Tapi dengan adanya penubuhan STIDC, yang khususnya menjagakan the business, the industry itself and it is not a government department strictly so speaking. Patutlah sebahagian daripada industri itu di mana ada commercial consideration, diberilah kepada STIDC. Sebelum ini diberi, there will be some overlapping and there will be some confusions. So the purpose of some of these amendments is to make the line clear between the jurisdiction of the Forest Department and the jurisdiction of STIDC and hopefully if this is done, then perhaps there would be a better and I am quite sure there would be a better management of the timber industry. That is the purpose of part of this Amendment. The second part is our concern with timber theft which is quite prevalent as we all know in this country and government, of course, is very concerned about the theft of timber not only because in terms of loss of revenue but also in terms of the destruction of our forest. So the laws regarding the taking of timber, the transportation of timber, the possession of timber must be made more strict so that we can lessen theft. It is a well-known fact that some sawmills buy illegal timber. It is seen in the coffee shop and so on, some sawmills, they encourage people to curi kayu dalam hutan and they will buy. You know, presently there is some concern about people stealing besi (iron) some manholes are gone so on and so forth. People curi besi, but if there is no buyer, perhaps this theft will be lessen. Ada orang beli, itulah sebab ada orang curi. Jadi begitu juga kayu, kadang-kadang ada sawmill ini dia tidak cukup bahan mentah, dia carilah orang curi hutan itu. Kadang-kadang dia ada hutan sendiri tapi dia curi luar daripada kawasan. Ini berlaku, semua kita tahu ini. So the government is very concerned about this sort of thing, therefore, they will make the laws more strict. That is what it is all about. Not about human rights, natural justice and so on. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker … Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: That is what it is all about. Tuan Speaker: You are making … Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: I will give way to you as a matter of courtesy my friend, when your time comes, okay. Tuan Speaker: Are you under Standing Order 33(b)? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 33(a). Tuan Speaker: What point of Order? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Is the Honourable Speaker making a winding up speech? Tuan Speaker: No. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: I am just to clarify so that some people will not be confused. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Clarification should be done by the Minister. Tuan Speaker: Oh, No. He is going on for his own speech. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 32(1). Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: I mean, for the Member for Bukit Assek. I am saying all these, so that you will not be confused and be carried off by your own rhetoric. (Applause) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Obviously … the Honourable Speaker is making a winding up speech. Tuan Speaker: You are standing under what Order? Under what Order are you speaking? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 33(b). Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 33(b)? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Caption … whether the Honourable Member is making, in fact, a winding up speech? Of course, I understand the Honourable Member is very used to winding up speeches and he is unable to … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: He is rebutting. He is rebutting to your points, so it is within his right. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Winding up speech? Tuan Speaker: A winding up speech is a second speech by the Minister. The Minister will wind up. This is a rebuttal to your points. (Applause) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Why is the Honourable Member is helping the Minister? Tuan Speaker: Of course, they are on the same side. On the same side of the House. Just like Bukit Sentosa help you with the point of information (Laughter). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Standing Order, it is Kota Sentosa, not Bukit Sentosa. Tuan Speaker: Kota Sentosa, ya! Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: And what about Tuan Speaker, who are you helping? Tuan Speaker: No. (Interruption) Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: Tuan Speaker, I just want to make some clarifications. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, can I draw your attention to Standing Order 37(e), please. Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 37(e). While a member is speaking, all others shall be silent and shall not make unseemly interruption. (Applause) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Why is this going on here? The noise, the noise is not silent is it? Tuan Speaker: So no unseemly interruption. Okay, sit down. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: No unseemly interruption! Do not do like thatlah! Don’t do that. (Laughter) Tuan Speaker: That is an applause. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Is it? Or is it, kacau-kacau? Tuan Speaker: It is an applause to his point. Not interrupting him. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 37(d). Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 37(d)? No Member shall smoke in the Chamber. (Laughter) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: No. 37(e). Tuan Speaker: No one is smoking. (Laughter) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: No. No. I correct that. It is Section 37(e) I am talking about. (Laughter) Tuan Speaker: No one is smoking. (Laughter) Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: If I might continue. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Please, please. Tuan Speaker: He is not giving way. Please, sit down. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: If I might continue with or without the permission of Bukit Assek, it appears that we have a lot of supporters and you must take this your own medicine. If I might continue. Now, these are the reasons why the government put up this Amendment because of their concern for this matter that is going on. Now, on the question, since he raised it about charge and convicted charge or convicted. I agree that one all can be disjunctive or conjunctive but there is the question of what we call a continuing offence. If the Director of Forest or his officer sees that an offence is being committed, to prevent the continuation of that offence, surely he must be given the power to stop the continuation of that offence and does not has to wait until the person is convicted. Otherwise, you are condoning the Commission of an offence which will continue. Now, I am sure he knows the concept of a continuing offence. I am surprised he did not mention it … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 33(b), Tuan Speaker. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: I do not wish to give way now. Tuan Speaker: He is not giving way. He is not giving way. (Laughter) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: As a lawyer before you should have regards to … Tuan Speaker: I am still a lawyer, I am not a lawyer before. I am still a lawyer. I might be older than you … (Laughter) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Then tell us where the amendment that talks about the continuing offence is. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan Haji Satem: I think as you well said, we leave it to the Minister in his winding up because I am not winding up. (Applause and Laughter). Now, what I am saying is these are the concerns of the government, so they want to amend so that the Forest Ordinance can be more effective in the management of the forest industry. I would like to make a suggestion, it is very well of course to pass laws here and there, to amend laws here and there with the hope and expectation that it will be effective but I think the effectiveness of the law depends not only on the penalty imposed but also on its implementation. If you have a good law which appears to be effective, but if it is not implemented in full, then the law looks stupid. So, I would like to suggest to the Forestry Department and of course, STIDC, now that the law is in placed and has been made more effective, can you please attend to the effective implementation of those laws. I will give an example from my constituency. You have the Gunung Gading National Park, which is in Lundu. I have been given the honour or being briefed by them on the situation of Gunung Gading National Park. The officers there are concerned with the theft of timber from the boundaries of the National Park and they tell me that they have insufficient manpower. This is just one example and also Gunung Pueh, also in my constituency. They are also very concerned about the theft of timber from some of these areas. I am not saying that the Forest Department or STIDC or authorities concerned, are not patrolling the area, I am not saying that but perhaps, there ought to be more manpower and more effective monitoring of the areas concerned. Tuan Speaker, with all the reasons that I have given, I am very happy to support this amendment. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, we have a short break. Sitting resume at 4:45 p.m. (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 4:13 petang) (Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 4:52 petang) [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: I shall now call upon the Honourable Minister to do the winding up. Honourable Minister, you may now deliver your winding up speech. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, saya terlebih dahulu ingin mengucapkan terima kasih kepada semua Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telahpun turut serta dalam perbahasan Rang Undang-Undang dan Pindaan 2006. Seperti yang saya nyatakan dalam bacaan yang kedua, tujuan Rang Undang-Undang ini ialah untuk mempastikan bahawa industri perhutanan kita dapat diurus dengan baik dan pelaksanaan penguatkuasaan akan dapat dijalankan dengan lebih berkesan. Kita juga di dalam Rang Undang-Undang ini telah pun menghalusi definisi kilang papan itu. Di mana aktiviti-aktiviti huluan, upstream activities haruslah dikendalikan oleh Jabatan Hutan. Kebanyakan kilang papan ini adalah terletak di kawasan pembalakan masing-masing. Kenapa ianya diletakkan di bawah bidang kuasa Jabatan Hutan? Kerana dari segi penguatkuasaannya, ianya lebih mudah disebabkan Jabatan Hutan mempunyai kakitangan yang ramai dan aktiviti hiliran, downstream activities akan dikendalikan di bawah STIDC. Tuan Speaker, itulah matlamat kita menggubal Rang Undang-Undang ini iaitu untuk menyelaras aktiviti-aktiviti kedua-dua Jabatan Hutan dan STIDC untuk mengurus sumber hutan dengan lebih efektif dan optimum. Fungsi dan tanggungjawab yang jelas di antara Pengarah Hutan dan STIDC akan membolehkan tujuan penguatkuasaan yang lebih efektif dan optimum dapat ditentukan. Tuan Speaker, perolehan daripada industri kayu bergergaji, sawn timber telahpun meningkat. Di mana pada tahun 2006, ianya telah menyumbang kepada jumlah yang agak besar iaitu sebanyak RM7.2 billion berbanding RM5.5 billion pada tahun 2001. Tuan Speaker, in the process of improving the regulatory structure, the Government wishes to eradicate malpractices in the timber industry particularly illegal logging, obtaining logs from illegal sources for sawmills and the hiring of illegal workers by saw millers. Therefore, conditions such as imposing maximum output of sawn timber from a sawmill is to fix the amount of sawn timber that could be produced by that sawmill having regard to the logs that could be produced from any timber licensed area belonging to him or from any legitimate source, which he disclosed to the Director under the new subsection 66(3)(c). This means that if the output of his sawmill exceeds the amount of timber logs that he could obtained from his own licensed area or other disclosed legitimate sources, then he must have sourced his logs supply illegally and surely action should be taken against him in the absence of any satisfactory explanation from him as to how he obtained the extra supply of logs. Kita mahu menentukan bahawa maximum output selaras dengan apa yang mampu dikeluar dalam kawasan lesen balak dan jika ianya didapati melebihi dan ini memberi bayaran kepada kita mungkin mereka mendapatkan sumber itu daripada sumber yang tidak illegal. Dari itu, adalah kurang tepat seperti apa yang telah dikatakan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Bukit Assek bahawa ini menggambarkan bahawa sumber kita sudah jauh menurun. Tuan Speaker, the government believes that illegal logging can be curbed if there is no market for illegal logs. The government has firm reason to believe that sawmills which sourced logs illegally provides a market for those who indulge in illegal logging or stealing logs from national parks, natural reserve and wildlife sanctuary. This bill will help to eradicate such illegal activities. The new Section 66(4) is an enabling clause, conferring powers on the Director of Forests and the Minister concerned to either suspend or cancel a sawmill licence. The exercise of such executive powers conferred by the new law is always subjected to judicial review. The new provisions do not exclude judicial review. Tuan Speaker, the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa mentioned about the presumption of innocence. The government does not deny that there is such a legal principle. However, the government must ensure that those who break the law do not take advantage of this presumption to continue with their criminal or unlawful activities. We know that it takes years before criminal cases are concluded and a criminal court determines the guilt or innocence of a person. If pending trial or the conclusion of a criminal trial, a saw miller is found to be committing forestry offences or aiding or encouraging others to do so (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: Yes? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Seeking clarification. Tuan Speaker: Clarification. Honourable Minister, Kota Sentosa is seeking clarification. Are you giving way or not? Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): I want to continue. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The clarification to my speech which I didn’t raise, I didn’t raise anything about presume innocence so I want to seek certain clarification. As a Minister, I think, should be open to Members of this House seeking clarification … (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: Are you giving way? Kota Sentosa … (Interruption), Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, this is, I mean, come on, I am just a … (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: No, you ask first. Is he giving way? Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): I want to continue. Tuan Speaker: Okay, he is not giving way. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is not acceptable, come on. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Surely the government cannot allow him to continue with his unlawful activities and action must be taken to either suspend or cancel his license depending on the gravity of the situation. Without Section 66(4), the government would not have the power to act against a licensee of a sawmill, for instance if he continues to buy logs illegally, harbour illegal immigrants who may be used by him to fell logs illegally from neighbouring timber concessions or national parks. I wish to give an example that in a recent raid of illegal sawmills in the Bintulu Division, more than a dozen of Indonesians were employed by a sawmill and the Indonesians were found to be felling trees illegally from a forest concession belonging to another party, in order to provide sources of raw materials for his illegal sawmill. Without the provisions of the new Section 66(4), it would not be possible for the government to act against that sawmill until his court case is over. In the meantime, he could continue to hire illegal immigrants to do illegal logging. This is the type of situation that Section 66(4) intends to deal with. The government feels that it should have the legal powers to deal with those who take advantage of the law or legal principles like presumption of innocence to continue to flout the law. Tuan Speaker, all sawmills not currently licensed would have to apply for licence and comply with the new laws. Some grace period will be given for them to do this. Owners of sawmill who do not have a licence now or after the law is enforced, that sawmill is clearly illegal and action will be taken against such illegal sawmills. Properly licensed sawmill did not fear the new law. The government will help genuine saw millers to comply with the new conditions prescribed in the amendment. Tuan Speaker, saya berharap dengan penuh yakin agar Rang Undang-Undang Hutan (Pindaan) 2006 ini berupaya untuk mencapai objektif utama iaitu untuk menyediakan fungsi yang lebih jelas antara dua badan kawalselia bagi aktiviti hutan dan bagi aktiviti huluan dan aktiviti hiliran. Hapuskan fungsi-fungsi bertindih… (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: The Minister is making a winding up. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Can I seek clarification … (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: He is making a winding up, replying to the points raised. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: But certain points are not raised, certain points are not clarified, so come on, but a bit more … (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: He is winding up … (Interruption). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: We want to seek, what is in his mind, how will it facilitate and improve the enforcement. We want to know. Tuan Speaker: Isn’t he making the point? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, No, No, he is just shifting the power from one statutory body to another statutory body, from Forest Department to STIDC, so what are the mechanisms which was not … (Interruption). Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Itu yang kita telahpun jelaskan … (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: No, you sit down, sit down. You could raise this when I give the opportunity to the Members to speak. I gave the opportunity to the Members to speak. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It doesn’t matter. Tuan Speaker: What do you mean that it doesn’t matter. He is making a winding up … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 33 (b) … (Interruption). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The reply is ambiguous, the reply is ambiguous. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order 33(a), Tuan Speaker. Standing Order applies equally to the Minister. Winding up or not? Tuan Speaker: No, 33(a) on what? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Standing Order applies equally to the Minister. Tuan Speaker: 33(a) on what? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Point of Order. Tuan Speaker: Point of Order on what? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker is saying the Minister is making a winding up speech. Tuan Speaker: Yes. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I agree with that. Tuan Speaker: Yes. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: The whole thing is does the Standing Order applies equally to any Minister in the Cabinet during a winding up speech. Tuan Speaker: He is not giving way. So sit down. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: The point was he is seeking way for clarification. Tuan Speaker: So Sit down, sit down. Sit down, sit down. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Give way, he should give way. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, kita telah pun menjelaskan, ini yang telah pun kita jelaskan. Jadi kita berharap dengan andainya dan lulusnya Rang Undang-Undang ini, ianya dapat menyediakan kawalan yang baik untuk kilang kayu bergergaji yang telah diluluskan tapak dan operasinya. Saya, Tuan Speaker, memohon rang undang-undang ini diluluskan. Tuan Speaker: The Dewan will now resolve into the Committee of the Whole House to consider the bill which stands committed to the Committee. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE [Tuan Pengerusi mempengerusi Mesyuarat] Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan will now consider the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Clause 1 " 6 Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that Clauses 1 - 6 be ordered to stand part of the bill. Question put and agreed to Clauses 1 - 6 stand part of the bill Enacting Clause and Title Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan resumes. HOUSE RESUMED [Tuan Speaker mempengerusi Mesyuarat] Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006 has been considered by the Committee of the Whole House and agreed to without amendment. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI YANG KETIGA FOREST (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Encik Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question before the Dewan is that the Forest (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a third time and do pass. Question put and agreed to Bill read third time and passed USUL DARIPADA AHLI DEWAN BIASA Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, I would like to move the motion that the State Government restores the Local Government Election to ensure accountability, transparency and avoidance of corruptions amongst the local governments in Sarawak. Tuan Speaker, the time has come for local governments in Sarawak to be elected rather than to be appointed by the Ruling Party. Local Governments in Malaysia has been blended as one of the most corrupted government department. This is not said by the Opposition. It is claimed by the Timbalan Menteri, Datuk M. Kayveas, the Timbalan Menteri in the Prime Minister’s Department and he was previously the Timbalan Menteri for Local Housing, Government for Housing. Therefore, Tuan Speaker, we also believe so and under any democratic system, there are three tiers of government. One is the Parliament, second is the State Assembly and third is the Local Government. We used to have before the Confrontation time. We used to have local government election until 1965 when during the height of the Indonesian Confrontation, after the declaration of Emergency; our Prime Minister declared that, amendment the law and suspended the local government election. We are 40 years now since the suspension and also I believe more than 35 years after the Confrontation it is time that our State should be the first State to implement local government election, to be the first in the pursuit of democratic, truly democratic system. As such today I hope this Motion not only to attain the first State to have local government because our Constitution, Federal Constitution allows us. Under the State List, local government election is within the power of the State Government. We have the power. This august House has the power to restore local government election. And I have many reasons to support my motion today. One of which is the services provided by the local government leave much to be desired. As we are going around our constituency, the complaints from the residents to us, 90% of the complaints are because of ineffective, inefficient local government carrying out, officers carrying out their jobs. And we have at present we have the ruling parties appointing councillors. But I doubt, I doubt such councilors whether they are doing a good job. If they were doing a good job, the people would not have approached us State Assemblymen or Member of Parliament to lodge these complaints about drains not being cleaned, about rubbish not being collected, about anything, and roads not being paved. All these fall within the jurisdiction of local government. And they are the jobs of councilors. And when I asked them, when I asked these complainants who is the councilors in charge of the area, more than 90 percent of them don't know. They don't know who their councilors are. It seems that the government is wasting the money to appoint these councilors when the people they have grievances they don't know who to direct it except to State Assemblyman or Member of Parliament. I think we are in this august House to determine debate on policy issues and we have the three tier government each must do their job properly. So the inefficiency, the ineffectiveness of councilors is quite serious I would say. And because of that, the people, although they pay assessment rates and mind you, Mr. Speaker, our assessment rates is the highest in the whole of Malaysia. The Annual Rateable Value, we are paying the rate of 29.5%, 28%, 27% of the Annual Rateable Value of our property. Whereas in West Malaysia even in KL the residents there they are paying only 11% of the Annual Rateable Value of their property. The highest I know in West Malaysia, the residents in Ipoh, in Perak, Ipoh, there the rate of which the rateable value is charged is only 16%, 16% of the Annual Rateable Value. But in Kuching here, in Sibu, Bintulu, I believe they are charged, the residents there, property owners, they are charged 26.5% to 29.5% of the Annual Rateable Value. Although they are paying such a high fee but they are not getting the services which justify such high fee. And on this matter, on this motion, the emphasis is on accountability, transparency and the avoidance of corruption. We all know that the local government, they are charged with the duty to collect rubbish, to clean the drain, to maintain street lightings, maintain the road, resurface the road if it is, there are potholes. Now such services, a lot of them have been privatized without proper tender on the excuse that with privatization that it will be more efficient and there will be a better service provided. But I will take as an example, rubbish collection. It was privatized few years ago. There is no improvement in the service of rubbish collection. Previously when it was under the charge of the local government, the councils, we, the rubbish was collected three times a week. And after the privatization the collection is only twice a week. Which means by the same, if it were the same modus operandi, it will have saved 33% of the costs for rubbish collection, reducing from three times a week to twice a week … (Interruption) Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi bin Haji Junaidi: Clarification. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: 30%. 33%. Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi bin Haji Junaidi: 33B. I was, I am quite irritated by the, by few times mentioning of local government. I want to know about what government, State Government, can the … Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: What is it, can you repeat? Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi Haji Junaidi: I was, I am irritated by the word local government. As far as I know we have one single State Government. Can you explain what is the definition of Local Government? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Laughter. Ok. Ok. Ok. I will explain. Local government means like your council, badan, perbadanan, these are local government, these are called local government. Majlis Bandaraya, if Yang Berhormat is not aware, that's how we address this description to address all these Majlis Bandaraya. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (YB (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. May I ask … Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I'll let the Opposition Leader to answer the question first. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Who do not know what's the local government can give, identify himself. Tuan Speaker: Yes, Member for Senadin. Are you taking the point of information? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, yes, ok. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Ya, under Standing Order 33(b). Point of Clarification. May I ask the Honourable Member, what is the difference between Local Government and local authority? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It's basically the same. Interchangeable usage … (Laughter) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is interchangeable usage. If you can't understand, then, I'm sorry. Ya. So now, I was on … Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): So can it be … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Ya. Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, under 33(b) just now … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, Yang Berhormat … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri ak Muran: What are the functions of local government? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yang Berhormat, just a minute, just a minute, just a minute … Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): … and local authority? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: If you don’t stand up I will let you ask, you don't have to cite the Order, Standing Order, you … Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): I would like to know what are the functions of local government and local authority in Sarawak. YB Encik Wong Ho Leng: Is that within the ambit of the Motion today? What is the Motion today? Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Seeking clarification. Seeking clarification. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Read the Order paper. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think my colleague has answered the question. Tuan Speaker: The Member is asking whether there's a difference between the functions of local authority and local government. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think such terms are generally interchangeably used. Tuan Speaker: So basically they are the same? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Basically they are referring to the same thing, Majlis Bandaraya. Tuan Speaker: Huh? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Basically they are referring to the same thing, just calling by a different name. So I was on privatization of rubbish collection. After privatization there is no improvement in the service and we get maggots crawling out from our dustbins. And after the privatization instead of the councils, the local government or local authorities then saving the money instead of reducing their costs, on the contrary in Kuching, in Kuching the rates has been increased. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, point of order. I don't think there is any connection between privatization in election of local government. It should concentrate on the Motion. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Whether I am out of point, I believe our Speaker would direct and not a Member from this floor to tell me whether I am out of point or not. And for Yang Berhormat's information, we are talking about accountability, transparent and avoidance of corruption. I stated just now my emphasis is on these three elements in the operation of local government and privatization of rubbish collection is part of the government's job. It's the local authority's job, rubbish collection and when it was privatized there is no transparency, there is no accountability now. Because when the rakyat complained why are maggots now crawling out from my dustbin. Why my dustbin, rubbish was collected twice only a week after the privatization. Who is there to answer? They look for Wakil Rakyat. That could be one of the reasons why in Kuching, SUPP suffered such a big loss! (Applause) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Are we saying, or do you think somebody must be, makan gaji buta. Tuan Speaker: Pronounce properly, Honourable Member. Makan gaji budak is a boy's pay. Makan gaji buta is blind pay, so which one is it? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Makan gaji buta. Thank you, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: No, I would like to find out … Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: You think I am imitating Datuk Robert Lau. Thank you very much. (Laughter) Tuan Speaker: Let me clarify, makan gaji budak, budak is a boy. Makan gaji buta means you are paid … Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: B U T A, Tuan Speaker. (Laughter) Tuan Speaker: Oh, alright. BUTA. Alright. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, can you, I asked to … (inaudible) Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Point of clarification. Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. Tuan Speaker: Yes. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): The councillors are not paid. They are not paid. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The councilors are not paid, they have perks. They have perks. Allowances. They park their car free. Do you know that? In town, they drive around town parking their car, no charge! When the Dewan, we, we have to pay our parking fees. So these are perks and they have meeting allowance. And they are the persons who is charged with the duty to see to it that the councils, the government servants, civil servants in the councils are doing a good job. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I just want to ask, do you mean that once the councilors are elected, you are going to pay them salaries and a lot of perks? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That can be done. If it is, if they are elected, if they are doing their job properly, yes. Yes, allowance can be given. Salary can be given. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Correct, Tuan Speaker. Allowances and salaries can always be given but today as a Minister in charge of local government, a lot of our local councils particularly those in rural areas are in deficit. So if we were to have all these, I think the rates need to go up. You have said that our rates are one of the highest in the country. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yang Berhormat, the Local Governments are in deficit. Most of the Local Governments or local authorities are in deficit and they rely on government grant to survive. Yes, most of them are in deficit anyway and they rely on government grant to survive. I think, to ensure, to provide a better service to the people, to justify the giving of the grant to pay them salary rather than to make a uniform which costs RM4,000 per suit for the Ahli Yang Berhormat here. Costing RM4,000 per suit. That is a wastage. If a lot of this wastage can be saved, I believe we can pay the councilors and after that election of councilors so that they do the job properly. After all we are here for the betterment of our society… (Interruption). Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Point of clarification, please. Pandangan. What relation has this got to do with your election? You see, you admit that most of the councils do not have money. Well, even if there is an election of local government, do you think they can have money? Do you think they can provide better services? As it is, they are providing services now. You are referring probably to Kuching or to just some of your fellow party members who have been complaining to you but then in most other cases, there have been good services being provided down here. What relation has it got to do with election of local government here? Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, the uniform for the Dewan here is not RM4,000, it is RM2,000. It is made in Sin Ah and unless it is Versace suit. It is not Versace, it is local. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: But I will still believe RM2,000 per suit is very costly and that money could have been better spent elsewhere for the people. In reply to your point about what election can bring, that is a basis of democracy accountability. It is because if there were any regular election being conducted, those sitting there in power, they have to come out and face the people regularly and those are the time when the people are judging whether these councilors are doing a good job or not. Now, the situation is that councilors are being appointed by ruling party. So where does their loyalty lie? Where does their loyalty lie? To the person who are appointed, not to the rakyat that are supposed to have elected them. If there was a council election: (1) They will be subjected to being judged regularly; and (2) The people will know them. If you elect these councilors, you will know that I elect this councilor. So if I have problem, I will go to my councillor. I don’t have to go to State Assemblyman or Member of Parliament. That is the allocation of job, accountability and to allow the residents to know who you have elected because during election campaign, you have to go around shaking hands, telling them “Okay, next time if you have got problem, you look for me. This is my card, you can contact me.” And when there are problems, when there is rubbish and there are maggots coming out from their dustbins, they will call you up “Hey come on. Come and collect my rubbish” rather than calling the Minister. I don’t think the Minister will like to be bothered, bogged down with such cause. That is why I said election is important, local government election, to provide a better service to the rakyat. I have one case. A friend of mine, the wife was admitted to hospital because of dengue. That was in Hawaii Park. The drain next to her house was choked. So naturally she called up MBKS to clean the drain. The workers came, cleaned the drain, left the whole chunk of those dead leaves there and when she asked the workers “why don’t you remove it?”, the reply was “Oh, that is the job for another contractor. We did not contract for that. We contracted just to clean the drain. The collection is not my job.” And she was bitten by dengue mosquitoes, admitted to hospital, stayed there for a few days, discharged. Because of the low immunity, she was re-admitted yesterday because of infection. So these are the things that common people are suffering. Of course, I believe if the wakil rakyat calls up the Bandaraya or the Ministers call up the Bandaraya, they will come the next minute to clean the drains but what about the common people? The rakyat, the people that we are representing. They were not given such good service and that is why I said election of local government is the only way to improve and when Malaysia was formed we can have election for three tiers of government. Why can’t us after 40 years? Why can’t we have the same system? We should move forward to a more liberal country, a country that can really call ourselves a democratic system, the first world mentality or is it the Barisan Nasional is so lack of confidence that if there were any local government election, you may not have won it. I think in Kuching that may be the case. And now, coming to another point that I would like to raise is about conflict of interest. When one is in a position be it a Yang Berhormat, a Member of Parliament, Assemblyman or a councilor, can they be allowed to be involved in the projects of the council? The basic principle to avoid conflict of interest. We have a case where a company owned by three councillors, now they are not councilors, was alienated a parcel of land in Tabuan Laru. That land, initially there was a plan to build a market there and now sure enough a market was built on that land but on the empty plot next to the land, there used to be a piece of land, one parcel, one big parcel State land, and it was subdivided in such a way that MBKS was to build the market on the smaller parcel of land from the big area and the remainder was given to or alienated to a company owned by three councilors, ex-councilors now. We have raised this issue during the election time, we get no answer why did the government alienate to them. Now, is that proper? … (Interruption). Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Clarification. You see, Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa, we have got bodies like ACA where you can make your report. If there are areas where you feel that there are elements of corruption or abused of power, well you should know where to go. Complaining them, shouting them in public like what you say just now in your campaigning is not the place. As a lawyer you should know yourself where to go on this matter. We have got ACA. If you feel that there is a problem here, if you feel there is corruption here or abused of power, you go to ACA and report, make your report. (Applause) You even know there are three councilors involved here. In this case, probably you might have known all the facts here. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Everyone has a role to play in our system. Everyone has a role to play. ACA knows about this. I am very sure ACA knows about this. The Anti Corruption Agency knows about this. However, they said there may be some constraint from legal point of view including the corruption element. We are here as Wakil Rakyat to ensure that government operation like alienation of land is done with a fairer, more transparent system. It is not that because this involves corruption so we don’t have, we cannot mention it here. We are here to push for a better system, a more transparent system. That is why I cite this case as an example. There is no transparency in it. There is no open tender called for the alienation of land and the conflict of interest element is there and there is another … (Interruption). Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Point of clarification. Conflict of interest always means that a person who receives the benefit is involved in the decision-making but this so called three ex-councilors or the present councilors, assuming that it was correct, the land was not alienated by the council to them but by State Government or Land and Survey Department. So there is no conflict of interest here. (Applause) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Well, that was a choreograph. Okay, let me show you the conflict. I do not know when they applied for the alienation of land but from the reply from the Land and Survey, the plan which they submitted the number is SPS/2-01/ID(HQ24/9 . So I presumed the plan was submitted in 1998 and from what I checked, the three shareholders, they are in that time in 1998 they were councilors and there was a plan for the council to build the market on that parcel of land, on that State land. Now, my question, why MBKS having the plan or intention to build a market on a parcel of state land which is about 17 acres. Why the council did not proceed in the name of the council to apply for the land but instead the councilors form a company to apply for the land.These are information acquire in the office. Taking advantage of information acquire from the office and this surely is against, is conflict of interest. Although they are not the decision-making person but they have acquired knowledge from the office and they exploit that knowledge to their benefit. Even in common law, in common law, under common law there is this principle of tracing, whereby, whereby, if such officer acquires certain knowledge from, advantage from his position to his own benefit the entity in this case, the council, can trace their benefit and I urged, I urged the Ministry go for the land. It was alienated in the name of a company. They are the shareholders. A very simple legal exercise, transfer the shares back to the MBKS. I am not asking it transfer to me. I am asking that the land, the company’s share be transferred back to MBKS, have a try. It is worth it, it is worth it, I assure you. I have a development agreement here with me. Tuan Speaker: Member for Kota Sentosa, sorry to interrupt you. Can someone second it first before you proceed? It is not seconded. Y.B. Cik Ting Tze Fui: I rise to second. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Meradong, I suppose. Y.B. Cik Ting Tze Fui: Ya. Tuan Speaker: Proceed. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you. I can assure you it is worth the exercise, it is worth the legal action. That parcel of land now after sub-division 15 acres in Tabuan Laru alienated to the councillor’s company, ex-councillor’s company, that parcel of land. According to the agreement … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Tuan Speaker, one clarification, if the Member for Kota Sentosa strongly believes there is an act of public interest in this case regarding those three people he mentioned, why don’t you carry on following when the gentleman Member for Samarahan was saying earlier, why don’t you take up the case to ACA? You seem to be strong … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Asajaya. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Ya, Member for Asajaya. Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yang Berhormat, if one day should you find the service of ACA handy. One piece of advice for you. Once you lost the case with ACA, you can’t speak about it outside. That is under ACA Act. That is why I said we have different role to play. ACA, their role is to catch those corrupted officer … (interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): You earlier mentioned that ACA already know the case. Does it mean that nobody has brought up the case to ACA? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I said ACA knew about the case, ACA knew about the case. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): You brought up the case officially to ACA? Y.B. Encik Chong Ching Jen: You don’t need to bring a case officially to ACA for ACA to take action. Just like a police, if you see somebody kill, are you saying that the police have to sit there and wait for somebody to lodge report officially to … (interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): By taking your point. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is why I did not lodge. Once you lodge, no, no, no, no that is different. That is a legal part. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Ahli Yang Berhormat, if I may, on the other hand, DBKS I thought, MBKS, I thought can be in the purview of this dewan as well before still and I thought Ahli Yang Berhormat, you were the Chairman of PAC, bukan? Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Yes, I was. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yes. So, anything had been done? Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): (Inaudible)… Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Our role here as Wakil Rakyat is to push for a more transparent system and in a phase of such malpractice, our additional role is to let the people know. That is to create awareness among the people of the malpractice in the Barisan Nasional Government. So I have told ACA, I don’t need to lodge a formal report in order for you to initiate an investigation and ACA has my has our election campaign material and which clearly stated how it goes about and all the information I got here are from the public record. So that you … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Are you accusing that ACA is not being effective? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am saying that. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): You are saying that in this august House that ACA is useless? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is not effective. Not effective and useless, they maybe … (Interruption). Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Thank you. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is not effective and they have not done anything but they have all the materials and they have the power to investigate. Whether to investigate or not to investigate we will push for it and as for our role, I say, we have a different role to play. Our role here is to educate the rakyat about this malpractice so that they are aware of it. So that government in future or the Ministers may not dare to engage in such transaction. That is our role, our role here. Want to seek a clarification? Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, if you strongly feel that there is an act of corruption there is an act of abused of power down here against these three councilors or against these three companies, for they are not here to defend themselves, you are here and then covered by the bunch of immunity of this august House and if you already report the matters to ACA and you feel that ACA is not effective, I think the other alternative would be for you to go out from this august house and say it out openly, these companies, this particular person has committed in a corrupt practice, corrupt act … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: In this august House? Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Outside of this august House. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have said it, I have said it. That is why you have not heard. I have repeated it over and over again… (Interruption) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: outside … Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Outside, outside. During election time, during ceramah over to thousand of people, my friend. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: We will check on this. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, yes, yes. If you bother to attend our ceramah, you will know. Plenty of occasions. I was surprised, I was surprised. Why SUPP does not come out of any, any, any explanation. So I hope explanation can be given and if they want my service as a council to trace the shares, I am willing to offer my service, free of charge. So, I am not exposed how much are the councilors making. You may be interested. According to the development agreement for the fifteen parcels of land, 99 shophouses will be built on it. 99 shophouses. And once it is built, for each shophouse being sold, a dollar… (interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): (Inaudible)… Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: These are acts done by member of the Local Government, don’t run away from that. For each dollar, for each dollar made or received proceed of sale from the shophouse, for each dollar, 27.5% goes to the land owner. Do the calculationlah. 27.5% goes to the company owned by the councillor. 72.5% goes to the developer. Such ratio will continue until it reaches a total sale proceed of 80 million. Thereafter for every dollar received, fifty cent will go to the land owner and fifty cent to the developer. If we make a rough estimates … (interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Tuan Speaker, … (Inaudible) in the case of corruption. Then I am asking him does he believes ACA … (Inaudible) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think this is a malpractice. It may not, it may not, it may not pass as corruption per say under the corruption … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): If it is not … (Inaudible) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is a malpractice, malpractice, government practice without transparency, understand, without transparency. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): If you say malpractice, what … (Inaudible) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are the councillor, you know the fact and you are applying for the alienation of the land from the government instead of the council of which you are holding office… (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): (Inaudible)… Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You can call. I think we have the power, this House has the power to call the three gentlemen to be here. This House has the power if you want. Ask the … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Tuan Speaker, I also like to … (Inaudible) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: SUPP involved. I believed the three councillors are appointed by SUPP. The appointment, by appointment, by appointment. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): … (Inaudible) Tuan Speaker: I think you have exceeded your time. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will conclude in five minutes. Tuan Speaker: Ya, you have been speaking about forty five minutes. So, can you close the case? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, because of the clarification. I will conclude. I believed a proper system, a system where we practice democracy, we should not allowed such private profiteering be carried out especially involving councilors or ministers or elected representative and the whole exercise of alienation of land there is no, no open tender whatsoever being called and assuming a rough estimate of one million per shophouse after the sale of the 99 shophouse, this land owner company will get thirty million cash. Tuan Speaker: Ya, you have already revolved around this point… (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, no, no … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: The motion is the State Government restores the Local Government election. So can you move on. You have covered the point. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright. Ya, I believed should there be any Local Government election, these three councillors will have to face the rakyat, face the questioning from the rakyat and may be, may be they will do a service to the previous Ahli Yang Berhormat for Batu Lintang or Pending, they may not lose the seat because there are people accountable, accountable. Now there is no accountability. The three of them just enjoy whatever they want. Timbalan ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Point of clarification Tuan Speaker. If the Member say that no elected representative can do any business? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Well, you can. Elected, elected representative you can, you can do business, you can do business. But the office that you hold you should not be involved in the business of that office. Like councillors for MBKS, they can, they can. They can get projects from DBKU or another council. No problem. I have no qualms with that. But if you are MBKS Councillor you should not get project from MBKS. Ha! That is the point I am driving at. So … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Point of clarification. Is this project an MBKS project? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You can say that it is not in the strict sense but I have said, I have said there is plan … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): … (Inaudible) if this is not an MBKS project, why is MBKS dragged in? … (Inaudible) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: There is a plan. No, no I think the Minister can clarify. Yang Berhormat going to clarify on this point… (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): … (Inaudible) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright, then let the minister clarify. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): I think you are just guessing. Tuan Speaker: The question of the minister is quiet simple. Is this is an MBKS project? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It relates to MBKS projects. It relates, because MBKS is building a market there. Initially the market and the 99 shophouses fall in one parcel of land. Now the market and the 99 shophouses separate parcels of land. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Did MBKS say they are going to build a market there? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You see, Yang Berhormat, in the plan submitted by this councilor’s company, a plan drawing up the locality of the market and they are councillors. The inference is clear, is as clear as water... (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Has MBKS decided to build a market there or it was just a proposal to build a market there? Can you please clarify? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: They’re councillors and MBKS at that time in 1998 did have some intention to build a market there. It has some intention and...(Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Are your sure, because in this House you cannot use false information. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I know, I know, I know, I know. I hope, Yang Berhormat in future if I ask for clarification you accord me with the same courtesy that I have accorded you. Not like the other Yang Berhormat refusing to answer question, clarification. I sat down to get clarification whenever, whoever stands up but I hope ministers replying will accord me with the same courtesy in future. So now, that is why I said… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Can you close your sentence. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, I will close. One last paragraph. To restore public confidence in the system, to have a more effective, efficient local council, local authority or local government we need election, regular election of councilors so that there will be check by the people, supervision by the people regularly and people have the opportunity to judge these councillors. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, I shall now put the question. The question is that the State Government restores the local government election to ensure accountability, transparency and avoidance of corruption amongst the local governments in Sarawak. Any member wants to, Minister for … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have a seconder. Tuan Speaker: The seconder wants to speak. It is not working, is it? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Meradong, you can use this mike. Tuan Speaker: Okay, obviously we need the new Dewan. (Laughter) Y.B. Cik Ting Tze Fui: Terima kasih Tuan Speaker. I rise to raise my point in supporting a motion moved by Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa. Tuan Speaker: Yes. Y.B. Cik Ting Tze Fui: Although there used to be election for members for local governments, no local government election has been held in Malaysia for 40 years. Tuan Speaker, at present there are altogether 25 local authorities in Sarawak. Their functions include waste collection, street lighting, public health, providing amenities, recreational parks, housing and commercial amenities. The local government also plays its roles as local authority, local paying authority like licensing authority, power to impose certain kinds of taxes, undertake building, housing and commercial construction, for example market, hawker stalls, etc, power to perform urban planning and management functions, traffic management and control and power to plan and provide public amenities. Another important avenue to participate in the running of the local authority is through councilors appointed by the government in the past in local councils. Tuan Speaker, according to the Local Government Act 1976, the appointment of councillors is done from amongst the present and majority of whom shall be person ordinary residents in the local authority area who in the opinion of the said authority have wide experience in local government affairs or who have achieved distinction in any profession, commerce or industry or are otherwise capable of representing the interest of the communities in the local authority area. But the appointment of councillors today is based on political affiliation. This does not reflect the wish of the people. All the functions are carried out by local councillors are connected most personally (Applause) to the hearts of the people. The people who run the affairs must therefore understand the people’s needs. The people pay rates and assessment. We have a right to expect good delivery system whether in cleaning drains, cutting grasses, good transportation and perhaps a safe and bright environment. But I dare to say local councils have failed to deliver basic amenities resulting in floods, traffic jams and even dengue epidemic. Worst still local governments are unaccountable and unresponsive. It has been said it is one of the most corrupt entities. When communist countries like China and an Islamic country such as Saudi Arabia, allow direct election of village heads and municipal councils, Malaysia must allow this grassroots democracy in our cities, districts and even village. When local governments are elected, they have to perform and serve or else face the judgment of the people. Tuan Speaker, democracy is a proven formula for progress, prosperity, freedom, good governance and equal opportunity. At the local level democracy allow the people to decide on a solution to the problems they are familiar with. It is not accident that the riches countries in the world are all democracies. Isn’t it ridiculous that Sarawakians can select and decide our Chief Minister at the state level but have no right to elect our municipal councillors? (Applause) I personally think that the time has come to return power to the people. It is the right time for us to look at this motion to be passed by this august House. Being taxpayers, we have the right to decide who represent us and how our taxes are being spent. I urge all Honourable Members to support the motion to restore the local government election in Sarawak immediately. I beg to second. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Just for the clarification of the House, our system is a parliamentary system, different from the American Presidential System. The Chief Minister is not directly elected by the people like the American President. It is based on constituencies. Just for the information of the House. We shall now call upon the Minister for Local Government. Is the mic also not working there? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, as a Minister in the Sarawak State Government having responsibility for local authorities, I wish to set out the government’s position on this motion which in essence calls for a return of local government elections in Sarawak. But first, let me enlighten this august House, on the following matters which are essential for a meaningful debate on the motion moved by the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, namely: (a) The past history of local government elections in Sarawak; (b) The initial suspension and then the eventual abolition of local government elections; (c) The adoption by this Dewan of a nominated system as opposed to elective process for Councillors; (d) The role and functions of Local Authorities within the governmental structure in the federation in general and in Sarawak in particular; and provision of Government funds for local Councils; and (e) The system of financial management and accountability in local authorities; and finally (f) The progress and achievements over the last 25 years (since 1981 to 2006) with the present system and structure for local authorities in place. History of Local Government Elections in Sarawak Tuan Speaker, in the year 1956, exactly 50 years ago, the then Colonial Government presented the Local Government Elections Bill to Council Negri and it was duly passed. The Local Government Election Ordinance 1956 came into force on 14th September, 1956. The first election to be held under that Ordinance, was the election to the Kuching Municipal Council on 4th November, 1956 when 27 Councillors were elected from 9 wards in the area under the jurisdiction of the then Kuching Municipal Council. The first statewide election under the said Ordinance took place in November 1959. There were then 24 local councils covering the whole state. Each Council area was divided in wards. The rural councils had 15 to 18 wards each and every ward returned one Councillor. The urban councils like Kuching Municipal Council had only nine wards but each ward returned three Councillors. Just before Malaysia was formed, local council elections were again held in April to June 1963 using the same system as that deployed in 1956, except that candidates contested under political parties’ banners. The outcome was not entirely satisfactory, in that, in some councils were completely dominated by one party or two parties, like KMC where SUPP won in all seven wards with Chinese majority, and PANAS won in the remaining two wards. In Sarikei, there was a hung situation with no party in control. For the reasons that I will mention later, those councillors elected in 1963, served until October 1981 when the nominated system of councillors replaced the elective system for local councils. Tuan Speaker, in 1965, the Federal Government suspended all local government elections by passing the Emergency (Suspension of Local Government Elections) Regulations 1965. Amongst the reasons for the suspension were the external threats caused by the Indonesian Confrontation against Malaysia and in the case of Sarawak, the threats by the communist’s elements operating in the jungles of our State. Tuan Speaker, in 1971, this Dewan passed the Local Government Elections (Suspension of the Principal Ordinance) Ordinance No. 12 of 1971. This Ordinance came into force on 26th May, 1971. The principal effect of this Ordinance was “to suspend the procedure set out in the Local Government Elections Ordinance for the filling of casual vacancies occurring among Councillors of local authorities and to provide for an alternative procedure for filling such vacancies”. This law was necessary as there were no local council elections since 1963 and over the passage of time vacancies arose as a result of deaths or resignations of Councillors. Under this law, the State Authority i.e. the Cabinet would appoint a person from a political party to fill a vacancy in a local council arising from the death or resignation etc. of a Councillor from that political party. If the vacancy is caused by the resignation of a Councillor without political affiliation, his post would be filled by someone without party allegiance. The qualifications of a person to be appointed are set out in the law. Tuan Speaker, after Malaysia Day, I would like to stress here, the local Government Elections becomes a state responsibility under Item 4(a) of List II (State List) in the Ninth Schedule of the Federal Constitution. This means, Tuan Speaker, that if we were to have an election, whatever costs that will come out will be borne entirely by the state not by the federal. This means that the organization and conduct of Local Government Elections, if they are to be carried out, is entirely a state matter, and must, therefore, be funded by the state. The Election Commission (a federal body) is empowered by Article 113(1) of the Federal Constitution, to conduct elections to Parliament and the Dewan Undangan Negeri only. Although State laws may authorize the Election Commission to conduct local government elections in Sarawak, but because local government elections have to be funded by the State, the Election Commission would only be able to undertake that task of carrying out such elections if the State is willing to provide it with funds to draw up electoral wards, the requisite electoral rolls and conduct the elections if and should they were to be held. Since the Thirteenth Schedule of the Federal Constitution does only cover delineation of Federal and State Constituencies, new laws would have to be passed by our dewan, to cover the delineation of electoral wards for local government elections. A lot of time, money and efforts would have to be expended before the State can have local government elections in the light of the existing constitutional provisions and the complete lack of basic electoral infrastructure, to cater for the proper conduct of such elections. Tuan Speaker, currently we have 26 local councils throughout the state including BDA and DBKU. Its not 25. Assuming that each local authority is made up of 25 wards for which each ward is represented by one councilor, there will be 650 councilors throughout the state. In Sarawak, the local councils covers every square inch of the state unlike in Semenanjung Malaysia where the local councils only cover the urban areas. The rural areas are under the care of the Ministry of Rural Development but here in Sarawak, everyone throughout the state is paying rates. Everyone, so our councils cover every square inch. If we assume that it will cost the local councils RM50,000 for everyone to conduct local council elections then each council will be spending RM1.25 million for each election. This in turn will result in a sum of RM32.5 million be spent to conduct just one election for the whole state. So that means every three years the state have to come up with about, I just make an assumption, that we spent RM50,000 per wards. So the whole state would have to come up with RM32.5 million. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Clarification, I am very taken into the argument that RM50,000 per person if we were to conduct local government election but how does … (Interruption) Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): No, no, RM50,000 per ward. Tuan Speaker: Per ward, not per vote. Ward, W A R D. Each council consists of wards, not votes. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Well, I wonder how does the Minister come out with such figure, of RM50,000 per ward, that’s one. Secondly, there is only RM30 million per election compared to RM300 million new Dewan Rakyat building, when we can have ten elections or if you think that …(Interruption) Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): It is nothing to do with that? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no, I mean money spent when we have limited resources, where to put it to a more useful and more beneficial and then for example, I cited RM30 million goes to the councilors’ company. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, can I continue? Let the misdemeanor for Kota Sentosa has the chance at the end. You have the final later on. Tuan Speaker: You can do it in your reply, yes? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): So this is just we assume, I think I would like to draw the attention of the Member of Kota Sentosa, you must understand the word “assume”. This is assume. So some of the local councils especially the smaller rural councils cannot even collect RM1 million revenue per year. Let alone the amount mentioned above. Even if the state government can afford to provide special grants for this particular purpose, conducting elections, such amount of money can prudently be spent for the development projects rather than for the elections. The Member for Kota Sentosa also mentioned to the House that ours is the highest rate in the whole of Malaysia with the exception of Ipoh. I just clarify here that our valuation has never been reviewed since 1966 so meaning that the value for the property that we have today is actually based on that value of 1966. So that’s why every now and then we have to increase the rates but the value is still the same. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The value of the property in 1966 that is the value that we based, how about for houses that are just completed in 2004. Is the value still based on 1966? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): We still have to follow the 1966. So that’s why our Ministry is thinking of reviewing this ARB and the mover of the motion also mentioned about highest rates and yet he wants election. If we want election definitely we have to increase the rates. So later on, I think the public will cursed maybe not the opposition but the government and that will be the time when the opposition will say “NO”, we should revert back to the elected and nominated system. Tuan Speaker, before an election could be conducted, a lot of preparatory works need to be done. The delineation of boundary for each ward has to be done and subsequently gazetted, the voters registration exercise needs to be conducted and subsequently, periodically reviewed and updated. This exercise will add to the overall administrative costs to conduct the election for our councilors. Furthermore, if we have elections for too often people will become bored. Therefore the turnout will eventually be very low. Nobody will be interested. This has been the experience of countries like England, very low turnout because there are too many elections. Suspension and Abolition of Local Government Elections Tuan Speaker, the grounds given by me earlier for the Federal Government to pass emergency laws to suspend local government elections throughout the Federation show that to have these elections, the security and political environment must be conducive for these elections to take place. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Minister, how much longer do you have to go? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Can I, maybe you give me, in another 15 minutes. Tuan Speaker: Under Standing Order 9, we suspend the sitting and we shall continue tomorrow. Sitting is suspended. We meet at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 6:30 petang) |
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[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the Chair had received a letter from the Honourable Member for Layar who is also a Deputy Chief Minister stating inter-alia that there were efforts made yesterday in the Dewan or its precints by the Honourable Member for Padungan to effect service of Court documents or process on the Honourable Member for Layar. In this connection, I wish to draw this Dewan’s attention to Section 7 of the Dewan Undangan Privileges, Immunities and Powers Ordinance 1963 which reads, quote: “No process issued by any Court in the exercise of its civil jurisdiction shall be served or executed within the precints of the Dewan while the Dewan is sitting or through the Speaker, the Secretary or any officer of the Dewan.” The Chair views any breach of the said Ordinance by any Member of the House with great concern and any such breach is a serious matter. Therefore, the Chair has asked the Secretary to forward a copy of the letter from the Honourable Member of Layar to the Honourable Member for Padungan, who is hereby asked to explain his conduct which prima facie appears to be a breach of Section 7 of the said Ordinance. He ought to give his explanation by tomorrow, Wednesday. In the absence of a satisfactory explanation, the Chair would have to determine what action ought to be taken under the Ordinance or the Standing Orders. In the meantime, the Chair urges all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat to observe and comply with the provisions of the Ordinance which is a law passed pursuant to Article 25 of the State Constitution to regulate the privileges, immunities and powers of this august House. I now hand over to the Secretary to deliver the letter to the Honourable Member for Padungan. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, I accept the letter. PERTANYAAN-PERTANYAAN BAGI JAWAPAN LISAN BANTUAN MEMBINA RUMAH KEDIAMAN (1) Y.B. Encik John Sikie Tayai bertanya kepada Menteri Perumahan: Adakah kerajaan masih memberi pertolongan kepada rakyat termiskin untuk membantu membina rumah kediaman. Kalau ada, berapakah jumlah yang terbanyak yang diberi? Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kakus, kerajaan masih lagi membantu rakyat termiskin memiliki rumah kediaman melalui Skim Projek Perumahan Rakyat Termiskin (PPRT) ataupun apa yang dikenali sebagai PPRT dengan kerjasama Pejabat Daerah dan Pejabat Pembangunan Negeri. Setiap kelulusan permohonan berjumlah RM14,000 bagi pembinaan sebuah rumah kediaman, menerusi permohonan pembiayaan dari Pejabat Pembangunan Negeri dengan penilaian permohonan daripada Pejabat Daerah di mana pemohon menetap. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kidurong. Y.B. Encik Chiew Chiu Sing: (Supplementary question) Will the Honourable Minister, as to whether the government would help the people who are the most poor in building their longhouses? Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Ya, memang ada. Kita mempunyai satu program untuk membantu masyarakat, mereka yang diam dalam rumah panjang untuk diberi bantuan. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) Yang Berhormat Menteri, that among the poorest, one of the problems is that they cannot raise loans to purchase the house. Even though for the low cost houses, it was sold at about RM30 plus thousand but because they do not have their Income Tax Return forms, so they find a difficulty for them to apply for bank loans. So is the kementerian implementing policy whereby houses were built and rented to them at a very low rent because what I know in KL the rental for such houses is about RM140 per month with three bedrooms and two toilets. Is government implementing such policy and if so how many units were built so far? Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): For the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, there is a programme for us to build what we call flat for rental, meant for people who have no houses but they need place to stay with three bedrooms as you mentioned and we are implementing it here in Kuching. There are two projects at the moment, one is Sri Wangi and the other one is in Matang and there are some more projects under the Ninth Malaysia Plan. BANTUAN MENINGKATKAN USAHAWAN BUMIPUTERA (2) Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi bertanya kepada Ketua Menteri: Apakah langkah-langkah lebih mesra pihak Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara untuik membantu peniaga-peniaga kecil yang berhasrat untuk menjalankan perniagaan di premis rumah masing-masing dan di kampung-kampung dalam kawasan pentadbiran DBKU? Ramai di kalangan mereka telah menjalankan pelbagai kursus perniagaan dan keusahawanan. Jadi bagaimanakah pihak DBKU dapat membantu kerajaan dalam meningkatkan bilangan usahawan bumiputera ini dengan cara yang lebih proaktif? PUSAT USAHAWAN BUMIPUTERA (36) Y.B. Puan Sharifah Hasidah Sayeed Aman Ghazali bertanya kepada Ketua Menteri: Apakah langkah-langkah yang akan diambil dan dilaksanakan oleh Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara (DBKU) untuk menjadikan Sukma Ria sebagai pusat perniagaan utama khusus untuk usahawan Bumiputera di kawasan Samariang setanding dengan kawasan seperti pasar Satok? Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden Haji Majais): Tuan Speaker, izinkan saya menjawab kedua-dua soalan bagi Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Pantai Damai dan soalan (36) dari Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Semariang. Untuk makluman kedua-dua Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Pantai Damai dan Semariang, DBKU telah banyak meluluskan lesen-lesen kedai-kedai, kampung-kampung untuk penjualan barangan runcit. This is the strength of DBKU which the potential businessmen and businesswomen should take advantage and benefit from it. Namun DBKU tidak mempunyai peruntukan undang-undang untuk melesenkan premis perniagaan di kediaman yang mana juga melanggar syarat penggunaan tanah di bawah undang-undang tanah. Dalam usaha untuk membantu perniagaan bumiputera, DBKU telah mewujudkan Pasar Sukma Ria, Pasar Malam Sukma dan Pasar Mega yang bertujuan untuk memberi peluang kepada 1,852 penjaja-penjaja Bumiputera yang ketika ini masih berniaga di pasar-pasar dan pusat-pusat penjaja di kawasan DBKU Kuching. Sebanyak 63 kekosongan bagi pasar-pasar DBKU juga telah diiklankan pada Mac 2006 dahulu. Sebagai salah satu langkah bagi membantu kerajaan di dalam meningkatkan bilangan usahawan Bumiputera, pihak DBKU juga telah mengadakan bengkel bina upaya usahawan Bumiputera. Bengkel ini telah dijayakan dengan bantuan Dewan Usahawan Bumiputera Sarawak (DUBS), Dewan Usahawan Industri Desa (DUID), Persatuan Penjaja Kecil Bumiputera Sarawak (PPKBS), MARA, SEDC dan Unit Pembangunan Usahawan, Jabatan Ketua Menteri. Objektif utama bengkel ini diadakan adalah bagi memberi peluang kepada para penjaja, para pengusaha bumiputera khususnya untuk mengetahui perkembangan terkini hala tuju, usaha serta peranan DBKU di dalam pengurusan penjaja, peniaga di Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara. Selain daripada itu, bengkel ini juga berperanan sebagai medan untuk usahawan bertukar fikiran, berkongsi pendapat, memperbaiki kelemahan dan memantapkan daya saing dan daya tahan dan mengeratkan lagi perhubungan silaturahim di kalangan para usahawan, networking agar lebih berdaya maju dengan DBKU. Sejajar dengan agenda kerajaan di dalam Program Pembasmian Kemiskinan Bandar (PPKB), DBKU juga telah bekerjasama dengan pihak agensi pelaksana utama seperti MARA, SEDC, FAMA, MARDI, Jabatan Ketua Menteri di dalam mengeratkan usaha satu produk satu zon yang fokus kepada kumpulan sasar, kumpulan miskin. Terima kasih. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Pantai Damai. Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: (Soalan tambahan): Selepas diadakan berbagai bentuk program dan juga pihak DBKU dan juga agensi-agensi yang lain, apakah bentuk insentif yang telah disediakan oleh pihak Kementerian Yang Berhormat kepada usahawan-usahawan kecil bumiputera yang sedang giat menjalankan aktiviti perniagaan mereka dalam kawasan pentadbiran Majlis-Majlis Tempatan seperti DBKU. Terima kasih. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden Haji Majais): Terima kasih Ahli Yang Berhormat, ada beberapa program yang boleh dikatakan insentif yang disediakan oleh kerajaan untuk maksud memberi galakkan ataupun dorongan kepada para usahawan kecil kita supaya mereka dapat mempertingkatkan, supaya mereka dapat memperkasakan keupayaan mereka dari kecil hingga menjadi usahawan yang besar seperti penambahan jumlah dana misalnya, kepada mereka supaya mereka dapat menambahkan modal perdagangan mereka, supaya mereka dapat melicinkan cash flow dagangan mereka, supaya mereka dapat membesarkan premis mereka, supaya mereka dapat menambahkan cawangan mereka dari satu tempat ke satu tempat yang lain. Dan kedua Ahli Yang Berhormat kita mempunyai satu program special iaitu, doom big programme melalui pemberian dana bertambah, melalui peningkatan exposure product mereka kepada pasaran yang lebih besar, melalui peningkatan marketing ke atas produk-produk mereka. Usahasama di antara Jabatan Ketua Menteri dan Kementerian Pembangunan Usahawan Koperasi Malaysia misalnya, kita mempunyai satu program supaya usahawan yang berjaya akan diberi segala bantuan supaya mereka menjadi lebih maju, berjaya. Selain daripada loan ataupun geran mereka didedahkan, mereka didedahkan kepada rangkaian permasaran yang lebih besar lagi misalnya, dalam bulan Mac lalu kita membawa 16 usahawan dari seluruh Sarawak yang kita pilih di Melaka, di mana kita telah diberi anugerah oleh Timbalan Perdana Menteri menjadi good usahawan yang champion di Melaka semasa gerak usahawan peringkat nasional di Melaka tempohari. Dan, di penghujung bulan ini kita akan memilih 15 lagi ke Negara Brunei Darussalam dan pada bulan September nanti kita akan membawa mereka yang maju ke negara Jepun supaya mereka mendapat pendedahan yang lebih daripada apa yang mereka dapat di Sarawak ini. Terima kasih. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Padungan. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: (Soalan tambahan) Thank you, Tuan Speaker. Now, the problem with DBKU lies not with the plans and all the taklimat and so on that the DBKU has been promoting. The problem with DBKU lies with the insufficiency of available workable market places. For example, the Sungai Maong Bazaar … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat… Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Yes, I am asking the question. Tuan Speaker: This is a supplementary question. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I know, I know … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: It has got to be concise, precise, not prepared for argument or debate. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I will try my best, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Please proceed. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Now, what steps are being taken to ensure that sufficient hawker and suitable hawker places are being given to the numerous hawkers that are now trading illegally, so called in kediaman, by the road side and in many places in Bandar Kuching Utara. Now, further, further, I say, I am finishing, I am finishing… Tuan Speaker: Further is what? Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Just a further question. I am sorry, I am shaking… Tuan Speaker: You have to phrase your supplementary question in the form of a question and not an argument. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, I stand guided. Further, the two new pasar which is Sungai Maong and also Taman Sukma until today they are complete failures. Are there any steps to make sure that future market places set up by DBKU will be in accordance and in the expectations of the affected traders? Thank you. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden bin Haji Majais): Dari Padungan. It is not right to say it is a failure, there are people having their business there quite okay, you see. It is only a few that are frustrated for example, but … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: …. 90% err… Tuan Speaker: Member for Padungan, the Minister is replying to your question. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Sorry. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden bin Haji Majais): There are people that are doing business quite well over there and any new proposal for new areas we will study and consider subject to availability of fund, site and availability of the project. Thank you. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: But the name, Mayor, is never to be found Yang Berhormat. Tuan Speaker: Only two Supplementary Questions. Now, let me remind the House for every question I will allow two Supplementary Questions, priority is given to the originator of the question. Yang Berhormat Awang Bemee Ali Basah, Nangka. PEMBINAAN JABATAN KIMIA (3) Y.B. Encik Awang Bemee bin Awang Ali Basah bertanya kepada Timbalan Ketua menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan: Pembinaan pejabat Jabatan Kimia di Jalan Oya, Sibu sedang rancak dijalankan. Bilakah ianya siap untuk beroperasi? Berapakah jumlah kakitangan serta kidmat yang akan disediakan? Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, saya ingin memaklumkan Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Nangka bahawa pembinaan pejabat Jabatan Kimia di Jalan Oya, Sibu, dijangka akan siap pada bulan Mac 2007. Pejabat ini dijangka akan beroperasi apabila bangunan tersebut siap. Jumlah kakitangan adalah dianggarkan seramai 43 orang yang terdiri daripada kumpulan profesional, ahli kimia dan kumpulan sokongan pentadbiran. Jumlah kakitangan dan perjawatan yang sesuai masih di peringkat perbincangan antara Jabatan Kimia dan Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam. Makmal ini akan menyediakan perkhidmatan analisis saintifik kepada agensi kerajaan serta sektor swasta bagi kawasan bahagian Sibu, Kapit dan Mukah. Y.B. Encik Awang Bemee bin Awang Ali Basah: (Soalan tambahan) Tuan Speaker, soalan tambahan. Bolehkah Yang Berhormat Menteri maklumkan senarai jawatan-jawatan yang telah diluluskan untuk Jabatan Kimia ini. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Memang boleh, terima kasih. Soalan tambahan yang dikemukakan oleh Ahli Berhormat bagi Nangka. Jabatan Kimia masih berunding dengan Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam untuk menentukan perjawatan yang sesuai berdasarkan skop perkhidmatan yang dicadangkan. Jawatan-jawatan yang telah dicadangkan dan senarainya adalah seperti berikut:- (i) Pengarah, Ahli Kimia, Pegawai Sains Gred C54 - 1 (ii) Ahli Kimia, Pegawai Sains Gred C48 - 1 (ii) Ahli Kimia, Pegawai Sains Gred C44 - 1 (iv) Ahli Pegawai Sains Gred C41 - 8 (v) Penolong Pegawai Sains Gred C27 - 3 (vi) Pembantu Makmal Gred C22 - 4 (vii) Pembantu Makmal Gred C17 - 12 (viii) Pembantu Tadbir Gred N22 - 1 (ix) Pembantu Tadbir Gred W17 - 1 (x) Pembantu Tadbir Gred N17 - 2 (xi) Pembantu Khas/Pembantu Tadbir Gred N17 - 1 (xii) Pengawal Keselamatan Gred KP11 - 4 (xiii) Pembantu Am Rendah Gred N1 - 4 Jumlahnya 43 orang. Sekian, terima kasih. Y.B. Encik Awang Bemee bin Awang Ali Basah: (Soalan tambahan) Bolehkah Yang Berhormat Menteri maklum ongkos pembinaan jabatan ini. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Terima kasih. Ongkos pembinaan jabatan ini ialah sejumlah RM22.3 juta. PEMBINAAN MASJID DAERAH MATU (4) Y.B. Encik Abu Seman bin Jahwie bertanya kepada Ketua Menteri: Memandangkan Upacara Pecah Tanah bagi pembinaan Masjid Daerah Matu telah dilaksanakan pada 1.11.97. Apakah status pembinaan Masjid Daerah Matu dan bilakah pembinaan tersebut akan dimulakan? Menteri Muda Hal Ehwal Islam dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Haji Daud Abdul Rahman): Untuk makluman Yang Berhormat bagi Jemoreng, pembinaan Projek Masjid Daerah Matu masih di peringkat memperhalusi kaedah perlaksanaannya, manakala kesesuaian tapak sedia ada dikaji semula kerana masalah tapak terletak di kawasan yang kerap dilanda banjir. Kerajaan akan berusaha untuk melaksanakan projek ini dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan, Insya Allah. MASALAH PENJUALAN ARAK DAN GAM (5) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah bertanya kepada Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam: Penggunaan arak murah dan penghiduan gam amat berleluasa terutama sekali di kawasan-kawasan setinggan dan luar bandar. Apakah tindakan kerajaan untuk menangani masalah ini dan apakah undang-undang perjualan arak di kawasan majoriti Islam dikuatkuasakan? PENJUALAN MINUMAN KERAS (35) Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib bin Zulpilip bertanya kepada Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam: Terdapat perbuatan beberapa buah kedai runcit dan kedai kopi yang menjual minuman keras dan ada juga yang beroperasi di kawasan penduduk Islam. (a) Adakah perbuatan kedai-kedai seumpama ini melanggar syarat-syarat pelesenan mereka dan apakah agensi yang seharusnya mengambil tindakan yang sepatutnya? (b) Untuk mengurangkan masalah mabuk akibat minum minuman keras, adakah kerajaan akan menutup kedai-kedai tersebut atau menghadapkan pemunya kedai-kedai tersebut ke mahkamah dan berapakah jumlah kedai yang telah ditutup dan juga berapakah jumlah kes yang telah dihadapkan ke mahkamah atas kesalahan tidak mematuhi syarat-syarat tertentu? Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Tuan Speaker, ingin saya mengambil perhatian tentang soalan (35) juga iaitu daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak. Memandangkan kedua-kedua soalan ini adalah mengenai isu yang sama, saya ingin memohon izin untuk menjawab kedua-duanya serentak. Tuan Speaker, sebagai makluman Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak dan Asajaya, pihak berkuasa tempatan iaitu PBT, tidak pernah mengeluarkan lesen untuk menjual arak di kedai-kedai runcit yang terletak di kawasan di mana 80% ataupun lebih penduduknya adalah orang Islam. Walau bagaimanapun sekiranya didapati penjualan arak dilakukan di kawasan yang dilarang adalah jelas, adalah jelas, bahawa tindakan tersebut adalah salah di sisi undang-undang. Sekiranya PBT menerima aduan mengenai kegiatan tersebut maka tindakan undang-undang boleh diambil ke atas pelesen berkenaan, termasuklah merampas arak tersebut, mengkompaun dan mengenakan denda. Tuan Speaker, PBT hanya mempunyai kuasa untuk mengambil tindakan ke atas perbuatan yang melanggar syarat-syarat lesen. Sekiranya terdapat kejadian di mana seseorang didapati mabuk dan pada masa yang sama terdapat aduan bahawanya ialah dibeli dari kedai yang tidak dilesenkan, maka PBT berhak untuk mengambil tindakan undang-undang keatas pemilik kedai tersebut dan bukannya ke atas orang yang mabuk itu. Jabatan Agama Islam mempunyai undang-undang untuk mengambil tindakan undang-undang jika pesalah itu di kalangan orang Islam. Jika pihak PBT mendapat aduan seperti ini, PBT juga akan memanjangkan perkara ini kepada Jabatan Agama Islam Sarawak. Tuan Speaker, ingin saya tekankan di sini undang-undang dan perlaksanaan undang-undang, bukanlah perkara yang terakhir untuk membanteras gejala sosial. Memang betul undang-undang mestilah dilaksanakan dan tujuan penting perlaksanaan adalah untuk orang-orang lain tidak melakukan kesalahan iaitu deterrent, selain menjatuhkan hukuman kepada pesalah. Tuan Speaker, pembanterasan gejala sosial bukanlah hanya tanggungjawab kerajaan. Tanggungjawab adalah semua pihak termasuk seluruh lapisan pemimpin dan masyarakat, termasuk juga pihak swasta, ibu-bapa, pertubuhan-pertubuhan NGO, ketua-ketua masyarakat dan Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat. Strategi yang berkesan ialah pendidikan, pendidikan agama, pendidikan dan keutuhan keluarga dan akhlak. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: (Soalan tambahan) Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Memang tadi Menteri ada memberitahu bahawa lesen tidak pernah dikeluarkan untuk menjual arak di kawasan-kawasan yang majoritinya beragama Islam tapi kalau kita lihat memang perkara ini amat berleluasa sekali di kawasan-kawasan yang mana majoritinya orang beragama Islam. Soalan saya seterusnya adalah pernahkah Majlis ataupun Council ataupun mereka yang mengeluarkan lesen-lesen ini, yang dipertanggungjawab untuk mengeluarkan lesen-lesen ini mengambil tindakan terhadap mereka yang menjual arak ini di kawasan-kawasan yang majoritinya beragama Islam yang mana mereka sendiri sudah tahu jugak, kedai mana-mana kedai yang menjual arak, mana-mana kedai yang tidak mempunyai lesen untuk menjual arak tapi tidak diambil tindakan. Berapa, pernahkah tindakan diambil oleh council-council berkenaan tentang masalah ini. Terima kasih. Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Terima kasih Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Asajaya. Sebenarnya pertanyaan ini sudah ditanya dalam Dewan ini. Ahli sekalian saya telah menjawab supplementary question pada Dewan yang lepas, terdapat keadaan di mana mereka yang membeli arak itu dari seberang, saya telah memberi satu case study, satu kes yang betul ialah misalnya di kawasan Yang Berhormat Dr. Rahman Junaidi di Pantai Damai. Mereka membeli arak di seberang jambatan dan mereka minum di kampung Bintawa, minta maaflah saudara Dr. Rahman, dan kita dalam PBT kita mesti mendapat aduan, kita tidak akan mengambil tindakan kalau tidak ada aduan dan semua aduan mestilah kita siasat dan kalau didapati salah baru kita mengambil tindakan. Apa yang dibuat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat di kawasan bahagian Kuching yang diketuai oleh Yang Berhormat Satok, kita telah membuat satu dialog dengan pihak Residen, pihak ketua masyarakat dan juga disokong oleh Jabatan Agama Islam dan kita telah membuat satu pelan tindakan untuk semua kita bertanggungjawab dan ahli masyarakat patut, kalau ada salah, kesalahan mesti membuat aduan dan hanya kerajaan akan mengambil tindakan kalau ada aduan, sebab itu saya telah menjawab tadi kalau PBT menerima aduan kita akan menyiasat dan kita akan panjangkan kepada Jabatan Agama Islam. Terima kasih. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib bin Zulpilip: (Supplementary question) Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. I brought up this question, supplementary question. Adakah Kementerian bercadang membuat arahan kepada council-council untuk menyiasat gejala penjualan arak dan minuman keras. Buat siasatan dan seterusnya menutup kedai-kedai tersebut. Terima kasih. Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Kita telah membuat arahan kepada pihak PBT dan setakat ini belum ada, dalam setakat inilah, saya tidak nampak ada laporan, yang ada siasatan dibuat jadi kita akan memberi jawapan kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat kerana kami sebagai Ahli Yang Berhormat dari kawasan Kuching, kita telah meminta Jabatan yang tertentu dan semua pihak mengambil tindakan yang, yang patut tentang masalah ini kerana gejala sosial adalah satu masalah yang besar sekali. Terutama sekali di kalangan orang Islam. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: (Soalan tambahan) Boleh saya? Actively, for one more question, Tuan Speaker. Since the question has been, dua soalan telah dicantumkan. Boleh Tuan Speaker? Terima kasih. Jadi tadi Menteri ada memberitahu bahawa masalah itu yang diberi contoh adalah masalah di Kuching, yang mana bandar, kalau kita lihat tempat kawasan orang Melayu dengan orang bukan Melayu, atau orang Islam dengan orang bukan Islam hampir berdekatan, kita seberang sungai saja sudah sampai ke kawasan bukan orang Islam. Jadi implimentasi undang-undang itu agak susah, sukar. Tapi kalau kita lihat di kawasan luar bandar, take for example, kawasan di Asajaya di mana 90% kawasan orang Islam, 90%, lebih 90%, kawasan orang Islam tapi terdapat kedai-kedai seperti ini yang menjual arak. Jadi, perkara ini sudah dibawa ke atas memang saya sudah membawa masalah ini ke peringkat council. Ini bukan masalah badan agama. Ini masalah council. Adakah tindakan akan diambil terhadap kedai-kedai ini walaupun mereka tidak mempunyai lesen. They are selling it illegally. Saya mahu tindakan seperti ini. Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Y.B. Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Saya ingin bertanya balik kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Asajaya. Adakah Ahli Yang Berhormat sendiri yang membuat aduan? Kerana saya hanya dapat menjawab perkara yang saya diberitahu oleh Kementerian. Kita akan memberi arahan kepada semua PBT. Kalau menerima aduan mesti kita menyiasat dan ambil tindakan. Saya mohon kepada semua Ahli Yang Berhormat yang mempunyai masalah ini untuk bersama mengatasi masalah ini dengan membuat pelan tindakan yang berkesan dan kami dalam PBT akan memberi kerjasama yang 100%. Terima kasih. Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: Tuan Speaker, memandangkan soalan ini merupakan dua soalan jadi diharap dibenarkan empat soalan tambahan. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Terakhir, terakhir. Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: Nampaknya Yang Berhormat Menteri Muda hanya menjawab sebahagian daripada soalan yang dikemukakan oleh rakan saya daripada Asajaya iaitu mengenai dua komponen sebenarnya iaitu mengenai penggunaan arak murah dan penghiduan gam. Jadi soalan mengenai penghiduan gam itu belum dijawab. Jadi saya nak bertanya kepada Yang Berhormat Menteri kita pernah mencadangkan supaya pihak Kerajaan mengadakan satu undang-undang kecil kepada masalah penghiduan gam di kalangan belia-belia kita yang amat berleluasa di kawasan-kawasan luar bandar khasnya. Jadi umpamanya pernah dilakukan di Negeri Perlis. Tuan Speaker: Jadi, soalan? Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: Jadi soalan saya ialah bolehkah pihak kerajaan menyediakan satu undang-undang kecil bagi membenteraskan permasalahan penghiduan gam ini daripada berleluasa merosakkan generasi-generasi muda di negeri kita. Terima kasih. Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Y.B. Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Masalah gam ini tertakluk kepada undang-undang setakat yang saya tahu. Kerana gam adalah diguna banyak industri. Ini adalah hal ehwal undang-undang dibuat diperingkat federal. Saya mohon kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat Pantai Damai kalau dapat kita buat satu pasukan yang dapat mengatasi masalah gam kerana masalah gam ini adalah masalah yang penting sekali dikalangan belia terutama sekali orang Melayu. Dan apa yang saya tahu kita ada banyak masalah untuk mengambil tindakan tentang kesalahan menghidu gam kerana kurang undang-undang. Terima kasih. STATEMENT OF 1st SILICON (MALAYSIA) (6) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen asked the Chief Minister and Minister of Finance: (a) The list of items sold under “Gains on disposal of property, plant and equipment” appearing in the Income Statement of 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd for the year ended 31.12.2004 amounting to RM850,322,253.00 and the name of the purchaser; (b) How was the purchase of such property, plant and equipment financed and whether it has any financial burden on the State Government; and (c) What was the arrangement between the purchaser of such property, plant and equipment and 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd in respect thereof after the purchase and how does it affect the merger arrangement between 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd and X-Fab Semiconductor Foundries AG in 2006. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, for the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, Part A and Part B of your question raised are both related to an Islamic Financial Scheme undertaken by 1st Silicon in 2004 with an objective to restructuring its balance sheet so as to improve its financial position. The restructuring of 1st Silicon’s balance sheet has a positive impact on the company as well as to the ultimate share holders i.e. the State Government of Sarawak. The gains on disposal of property plant and equipment of RM850,322,253.00 as mentioned in your question is part and parcel of an Islamic Financing transaction which involves the selling of assets to a specific purpose vehicle. In fact, the purchaser of this special purpose vehicle is the international bond holders. The sale of the fixed assets resulted in the above mentioned gain of RM850,322,253.00. The amount raised from the sale enable the company to refinance its existing debts. The sale and lease back arrangement of such property plant and equipment has comply with MASB standard namely Malaysian Accounting Standard Board standard necessary to effect the Islamic financing exercise. Without compliance to MASB standard the financial restructuring under the Islamic scheme will not be possible. In brief therefore, the financial restructuring activity has resulted in a stronger financial position for 1st Silicon by enhancing its balance sheet via the retirement of the existing debts which has higher interest rate and restrictive debt governance. This has allowed 1st Silicon to have greater financial flexibilities going into the merger exercise between 1st Silicon and X-Fab, Germany. As to question Part C, the Islamic Financial Restructuring is part of the State’s continuous effort to put 1st Silicon on better financial footing going into the merger exercise. As a result of the balance sheet restructuring there is now positive impact on 1st Silicon financial position as well as to its shareholders and also the newly merged entity. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Actually, the Yang Berhormat Menteri did not really answer the questions raised because I was asking for the details of the arrangement between. What are terms? Whether there is any profit guarantee to the merger company? So that part has not been answered at all. But I want an answer in respect of that part and I am raising soalan tambahan now. Tuan Speaker: Now before you go to soalan tambahan. The ruling is where the Minister addresses the questions that Ministerial reply answers your question. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, its doesn’t. Tuan Speaker: It is the ruling. Where the Minister addresses your questions. That Ministerial reply is the answer. You proceed with your supplementary. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It was sold to some bond international bond holder. So who is going to repay the bond holder and what percentage are interest is going to be paid and I understand that the cost of sale to revenue, cost of sale to revenue ratio of 1st Silicon has been RM2.00 to RM1.00 which means you spend RM2.00 to earn RM1.00 revenue. So has it been improved and what is the cost of sale to revenue ratio now? Because nobody will invest in a business where you spend RM2.00 to earn RM1.00 and whether there is any profit guarantee given to the X-Fab? Tuan Speaker: What’s your question? Phrase your question. One, two. Two questions. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Firstly, what is the percentage paid to bond holder by the government in respect of the restructuring exercise? Secondly, whether there is any profit guarantee by the State Government given that, given that the cost of sale to revenue ratio is two to one. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, the honorable Member for Kota Sentosa looks a bit confused as to what sort of supplementary questions he would like to ask. Tuan Speaker, the list of items used in this Islamic Financial Scheme is related first to equipment and machineries and not to property and plant as mentioned by Ahli Yang Berhormat. You are wrong there. You got your facts wrong. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It deserved financial statement. It was in the Financial Statement of 1st Silicon. Tuan Speaker: No, supplementary question should be with the pre-text of debate Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): You are wrong. It is only related to equipment and machinery and not to property and plant as mentioned by you, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa. The gains of this RM850,322,253.00 this is approximately USD225 million are from the disposal of equipment and machinery by 1st Silicon to the purchasers ie the bond holders as required under the Islamic Financial transaction. This, as you know is to create the sale disposal and lease back arrangement between both parties where the equipment and machinery are the underlying assets. Instead of paying interest on loan under conventional borrowing, Islamic Financing cannot have any element of financial charges as it is not consider halal. Rather profits will be the incentive for bond holder to participate in these financing activities. Tuan Speaker, the gains of RM85, 322,253.00 are derived in the following manner if the Honorable Member would like to know. Cost of equipment and machinery in terms of USD350 million. Net book value after depreciation USD125 million. Total gains USD225 million. Which is equivalent to RM85, 322,253.00. Is that answer your question. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The profit. Whether the government guarantee any profit? How much is paid to the bond holder every year? That is my supplementary question. The answer you have given is supposed to be the answer for the original question not the supplementary question. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, the interest rates or loss is about 5.7 % to the bond holders. Tuan Speaker: Y.B. Dato Haji Wan Abdul Wahab bin Wan Sanusi Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No. No. Is the government guarantee? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have a supplementary question he has not answered. Tuan Speaker, tuan speaker. Tuan Speaker: Sit down, sit down. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Perhubungan (Y.B Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Di): May I answer question number 7 please? Tuan Speaker: Yes. Yang Berhormat Dato Haji Wan Abdul Wahab bin Wan Sanusi. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): If you like there is no profit guarantee to the X-Fab. Tuan Speaker: Okay, that’s it. Now this is my ruling and this ruling is in New Zealand and Australia. Where the Minister addresses the questions, that questions had been answered. Whether the questioner is satisfied or not, whether he is satisfied or not. Where the Minister addresses the questions that questions had been answered. Otherwise there is no end. There are other questions as well. PEMBINAAN JALAN BAN (7) Y.B. Dato Haji Wan Abdul Wahab B Wan Sanusi bertanya kepada Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembanguan Luar Bandar: Adakah pihak Jabatan Parit dan Saliran akan membina jalan ban untuk menghubungi Kampung Sungai Buluh dan Kampung Ensengei? Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Perhubungan (Y.B Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Di): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Sadong Jaya, buat masa ini pihak Jabatan Pengairan dan Saliran Sarawak tidak mempunyai cadangan untuk membina jalan atau ban dari Kampung Sungai Buloh ke Kampung Ensengei. Walau bagaimanapun, cadangan ini boleh dipertimbangkan untuk dimasukkan ke dalam senarai projek-projek Jalan Luar Bandar (JALB) yang akan dicadangkan dalam Separuh Penggal Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan yang akan datang. IMPLEMENTATION OF WATER SUPPLY IN BAU/LUNDU AREA ( Y.B Encik Peter Nansian anak Ngusie asked the Minister for Public Utilities: What is the status on the implementation of the western Sarawak regional water supply and how much will be done during the Ninth Malaysia Plan to ease the current shortage of water in the Bau/Lundu area?Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tasik Biru berkenaan dengan pelaksanaan bekalan air di wilayah Bau/Lundu/Sematan, status pelaksanaan untuk pelbagai pakej projek bekalan air di bawah Bekalan Air Wilayah adalah seperti berikut: (1) pembinaan struktur air interim pumping man sepanjang enam kilometer berdiameter 500mm dari loji air Bau ke Kampung Sebuluh telah siap pada 2003; (2) pembinaan bekalan air Kampung Barieng, Kampung Segong yang melibatkan pembinaan saluran paip sepanjang 23.7km yang bersaiz 450mm, 355mm, 280mm, 225mm dan 160mm paip HDPE, stesyen pam penggalak dan tangki takungan air 1.3ml telah siap pada 2005; (3) pembinaan mild steel pumping man berdiameter 700mm sepanjang 17km dari loji air Batu Kitang No. 1 ke Bau telah siap pada 14 Julai 2006; (4) pemasangan empat (4) unit set pam dan kelengkapan sampingan di loji air Batu Kitang No. 1 adalah 60% siap sehingga Jun 2006. Projek tersebut dijangka siap dan ditauliah pada November tahun ini; (5) dokumen tender untuk pembinaan cadangan 3.75ml tangki tangkungan wilayah Bau telah dimuktamadkan dan disiap sedia untuk proses tender bergantung kepada adanya dana peruntukan; (6) reka bentuk terperinci untuk cadangan penyambungan paip air ke bahagian Kampung Rasau telah siap dan projek tersebut pada masa kini masih di peringkat penyediaan dokumen tender; (7) kerja reka bentuk terperinci untuk cadangan sistem bekalan air Kampung Skiad dan cadangan sistem bekalan air Kampung Jagoi masih dalam pelaksanaan; ( Projek berikut masih dalam peringkat reka bentuk:(a) Penyambungan paip dari Batang Kayan ke Lundu, dari Lundu ke Sematan dan ke bahagian Kampung Biawak; (b) Cadangan stesyen pam penggalak di Batang Kayan dan tangki takungan konkrit bertetulang di Kem Sempadi. (9) Kawasan tapak untuk stesyen penggalak di Kampung Sendaing, tangki takungan di Kampung Ulu untuk kawasan Kampung Biawak dan cadangan tangki takungan Sematan telah dikenalpasti dan permohanan tapak akan dibuat dalam masa terdekat. Peruntukan sebanyak RM62 juta telah dihantar untuk pertimbangan Kerajaan Negeri untuk melaksanakan Bekalan Air Wilayah dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan. Pelaksanaan projek akan bergantung kepada jumlah peruntukan yang diluluskan di dalam RMK9. PELAKSANAAN PEMBANGUNAN TANAH NCR (9) Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh bertanya kepada Menteri Kemajuan Tanah: (a) Apakah rancangan masa depan kementerian supaya sasaran untuk pelaksanaan pembangunan tanah NCR yang lebih kurang 1.3 million hektar dapat tercapai sebelum tahun 2020? (b) Setakat ini, berapakah permohonan telah dimajukan kepada kementerian yang belum diluluskan atas beberapa sebab dan berapa hektar tanah NCR telah dibangunkan semenjak konsep ini dilaksanakan? Menteri Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B Encik Francis Harden ak. Hollis): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tamin, pada tahun 1997, kerajaan telah mensasarkan penanaman 1.0 juta hektar kelapa sawit menjelang tahun 2010. Daripada 1.0 juta hektar ini, 400,000 hektar tanah NCR akan dibangunkan menerusi Konsep Baru Pembangunan Tanah Hak Adat Bumiputera. Ketika ini kita berusaha sedaya upaya untuk merealisasikan sasaran pencapaian untuk membangunkan 400,000 hektar tanah NCR menjelang tahun 2010. Soalan (b), setakat ini, Kementerian Kemajuan Tanah Sarawak telah menerima 110 permohonan untuk memajukan tanah NCR berdasarkan Konsep Baru Pembangunan Tanah NCR. Daripada 110 permohonan ini, 41 kawasan telahpun diluluskan, dan 69 permohonan belum atau tidak diluluskan atas sebab-sebab berikut: (1) Kawasan yang dituntut sebagai tanah NCR adalah tanah kerajaan; (2) Kawasan yang dipohon didapati bertindih dengan provisional lease dan kawasan tadahan air; (3) Kawasan NCR terlalu kecil dan berasingan di antara satu dengan yang lain di dalam kawasan yang dipohon; (4) Maklumat yang diketengahkan oelh pemohon tidak tepat dan pemohon gagal untuk memberi penjelasan susulan apabila dikehendaki berbuat demikian; dan (5) Proses menentusahkan status tanah hendaklah dijalankan dengan teliti dan cermat. Jadi, menerusi Konsep Baru Pembangunan Tanah NCR, 41 kawasan telah diluluskan oleh kerajaan dengan keluasan kasar 375,013 hektar. Setakat 31 Mac 2006, 31,726 hektar tanah NCR telah ditanam dengan kelapa sawit. Sejumlah 21,396 hektar telah mengeluarkan hasil manakala 10,330 hektar belum lagi matang. Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh: (Soalan Tambahan: Selain dari secara besar-besaran di negeri Sarawak, adakah Kementerian bercadang untuk menanam ladang getah atau rumbia atau sagu secara besar-besaran memandangkan harga sagu dan getah sangat membrangsang samada di peringkat domestik atau di peringkat global? Sekian, terima kasih. Menteri Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden anak Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan tambahan. Kementerian sekarang masih dalam perbincangan dalam program untuk penanaman yang lain. Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi Haji Junaidi: (Soalan Tambahan) Tuan Speaker, di sesetengah kawasan di Sarawak ini, terdapat kawasan kecil sejumlah 200 hektar NCR dan mereka memerlukan satu pembangunan estet (small estate). Adakah Kementerian Kemajuan ini masih lagi mengeluarkan satu peruntukan pembangunan estet ataupun kementerian-kementerian lain seperti Kementerian Pertanian dan Kementerian Luar Bandar? Menteri Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden ak. Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan tambahan yang kedua, Kementerian Pembangunan Tanah ada cadangan, ada program untuk program mini estet. PROSPECT OF 1st SILICON (MALAYSIA) SENDIRIAN BERHAD (10) Y.B Encik Wong Ho Leng to ask the Chief Minister and Minister for Finance: In respect of 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd.: (a) Please list details of the reported joint venture/merger between state-owned wafer foundry 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd. and X-FAB Semiconductor Foundaries AG such as proposed equity for and proposed capital investment of the foreing partner, and how this could help or salvage the State Government’s investment in 1st Silicon (Malaysia) sdn. Bhd. by way of recovering the accumulated losses, if any. (b) What are the prospects of the joint venture making money, especially in the light of growing regional and global competition in the fad industry; and (c) The total employment in 1st Silicon and/or the joint venture, stating in terms of local vis a vis foreign employees and their qualifications. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, for question part A, I would like to inform Ahli Yang Berhormat for Bukit Assek that the merger agreement between X-FAB of Germany and 1st Silicon (M) Sdn. Bhd. was signed on 22 March 2006. Under the merger exercise, the shareholders of 1st Silicon and X-FAB Germany will inject their respective assets into newly-merged company called X-FAB-1st Silicon Foundries Semiconductor. In return and under the new and large entity with the assets and plant present in Malaysia, Germany, United States and United Kingdom, both shareholders i.e. State Government of Sarawak and Extrium will respectively own approximately 35% and 65% in the newly merged company. Since the signing of the merger agreement in March of 2006, the State has been actively engaging X-FAB the various regulatory, domestic and international authorities and financial institutions on required matters essential to finalise the closure of the main merger exercise. In order to safeguard and protect the interest of the State in this merger exercise, it is important that market sensitive information on the merger be properly managed, failing which it may jeopardize opposition going into conflicting this merger. At this juncture, I would like to inform Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat or I would like to refresh your memories on why 1st Silicon was mooted from the beginning. As all Members of this august House may still remember, in the late 1990s, 1st Silicon was the high priority and strategic investment supported by the Federal government and initiated and spearheaded by the State of Sarawak. High-tech industry as a new source of economic growth was one of the key factors selected to transform, restructure and diversify the state economic base and foster development from its traditional, natural resource and agriculture-based industry. Wafer fabrication was a tactical choice to spearhead the State of Sarawak entry into the high-tech and knowledge intensive industry. All of which is to accelerate the industrialisation process towards attaining our nation vision 2020. This is also in line with the State effort to upgrade our economic development and human capital. Only with such an industry can the State of Sarawak move to the next phase of developing a k-economy and compete with the rest of the world. When 1st Silicon was initiated in the late 1990s, the state was fully aware of the long gestation period required for such a capital intensive industry. Unfortunately, due to the global semiconductor worse and protracted downturn in history 2001-2003 and a global inventory correction in the late 2004 through third quarter of 2005, 1st Silicon performances were further exacerbated. Like 1st Silicon, similar investment which are capital incentive with long gestation period are evidence in other industries such as aerospace, bio-tech, steel, chemicals, hydro and power plant. Countries like United States of America, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan and Ireland have invested and even given grant as incentive to kick start such capital intensive industries. Therefore, like 1st Silicon, it should not be merely view from the perspective of normal profit and loss only, rather, it is an investment essential to keep start the industry which will propel the state to the next phase of development in economic growth. Thereon, that there is already evidence of positive economic spill of the effect in Sarawak. Where as sustained growth in 1st Silicon will have favourable impact on the state as a whole, such as, creation of clusters and supporting industry, such as, design house logistic specialize chemical, construction, insurance packaging etc. Creation of new clears for the development of the intellectual properties, process technology, integrated circuit design etc. Enhancement of manufacturing capability and global connectivity of Sarawak. In addition, this were also provide catalyst in other domestic industries of the future as this will stimulate investments particularly in the value added acknowledge based sectors, broadband technology for example, bio-tech etc. Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, I must say that, the timeliness of this merger also means that the following key development will transform 1st Silicon. (1) Transformative merger with X-Fab Germany ensures 1st Silicon’s competitive position is significantly enhance. (2) Strong synergies with the merger, there are strong synergies for 1st Silicon in respect to the following: (a) Complimentary technology and manufacturing capabilities. (b) Proven management and technical expertise and know how (c) Research and development capabilities (d) Sale and marketing network (e) New growth prospect through expended customer base. There will be little or no duplication in personnel with the merger. We have now in fact, wider, global business coverage. The merge company will be in top seven in the world in terms of production capacity. There will be presence in Asia, Europe and United States. Hence of with the various states’ initiative taken to restructure 1st Silicon over the past five years, it has improved and has now reached the point of inflection where a merger with a strategic partner becomes inevitable. This merger is essential in order to elevate 1st Silicon into the next phase of growth and these mergers were now allowed us to be a global player in the semi conductor industry. I am confident that this will now help profile Sarawak in the international market as a place, which is conducive for foreign direct investments. I would like to touch on the prospects of joint-venture. With X-Fab Germany as our new partner, we aspect that the merger will transform 1st Silicon into an entity capable of providing a broader range of products, wider geographical reach and business modal which focuses on products with a longer shall lives with stable pricing. X-Fab has also has proven profitable business modal and one of the most established market leader in analogue business with strong technical expertise in niche market technologies. The business modal of the merge entity will focus on market segment where the products has longer shall lives, better profitability, product mix which constantly generic positive cash flow positions and stable selling price. With the merger 1st Silicon will be a global player with bigger market share and greater growth potentials. In social economic terms, 1st Silicon has made available employment opportunities. This is to answer your question (c). 1st Silicon has made available employment opportunities to the people of Sarawak, previously not available to them. In total about 90% of the 1st Silicon, 1060 employees are Sarawakians. The remaining 10% consists of foreign national who are employ for these specialists’ technical skills. These skills are largely in the areas of specialize engineering and research and development. It is the intention of the State and the 1st Silicon that more young Sarawakians engineers shadow this foreign expert and thus, don’t know how it transfer on the daily basis to the sons and daughters of Sarawak. Out of the 950 Sarawakian employees, 35% namely 333 staffs are engineers and the remaining has at least some form of technical qualification either Diploma or Certificate in require technical field. The remaining 10% of foreign expert have at least a related technical engineering Degree and many have a Master and Doctorate qualifications. Last but not least, the overall domestic human capital market an intellectual know how development will be further strengthen and this include harnessing the State capability in human capital planning and development retaining and developing domestic human capital resources, brand power and technical talents. Encouraging partnership with foreign and local universities for talents and innovations attracting quality foreign professionals. Thank you. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) In terms of selling its manufacture products, how is 1st Silicon fairing at this moment in time? Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): This is not part of the questions you have asked, but, I will answer your question, what is your question, in terms 1st Silicon products is it? 1st Silicon develops its technologies and processes of capable of producing wafers of .25 and .28 micron geometries and 1st Silicon has also started to production .13 micron products. 1st Silicon product technologies spent not only the markets for cellular phone, handheld video games but also image censors and a high voltage technology. And 1st Silicon is also in the process of developing technology for the auto mobile sector consumer electronic and smart cards. The company has started production of chips for smart cards, passport and IC cards and so on. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) When 1st Silicon was first started, the government are positions is that, is going into the high end market which means the top class, top technical field high end market. But recently, after the merger from the announcement made by 1st Silicon is targeting at the niche market which is lower end of the technology market. So my question is, is that a backward … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: What is the premise of your question? What is the premise of your question. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, and another question … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: No. Only one question. Ask one question. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Given that, given that, given that, 1st Silicon has made the lost of 2.5 billion in four years which is more than the total allocation of funds for roads in Sarawak under 8th Malaysia Plan. Given that, who has been … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: No, no, no. You cannot ask supplementary like this. I will not permit. I shall not permit. Question time is up. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: A motion. Under Standing Order 23(2)(b), a motion relating to a matter of privilege. I was given to understand in the … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: You are raising matter under … Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under the Standing Order 23(2), Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 33 … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Standing Order 23 Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 23, Ya. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen:: Sub paragraph 2(b), a motion relating to a matter of privilege. Tuan Speaker: Ya Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, so, I am seeking a motion to clarify because there is a contradictory statement. There’s a statement, quite confusing statement made by a Menteri Muda from report in newspaper this morning, saying about the uniform. Uniform, the cost of uniform is to be borned by the ADUN themselves, not by the public coffer … (Mandarin). This is a statement by a Assistant Minister, saying that the uniform made for the ceremony, the cost of which is borned by individual Ahli Dewan Undangan Negeri. So, but my understanding is that, previously it is from the government fund. So, I would like to seek clarification, my motion is just to seek clarification, which is correct? Is the Assistant Minister is correct, or my understanding is correct? I wish Mr. Chairman can give me the answer on this matter. Tuan Speaker: Not Chairman, Speaker, Speaker. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Oh, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Tuan Speaker: No. Our order of the day is governed by Standing Order 11. So you cannot jump the gun. Under Standing Order 11 we have here, unless your motion is under 15. You cannot change the Order of the Day. We are now moving to bills. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Clarification is confusing the public as well as is confusing … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Where is the motion? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: A motion, a motion, you see a … (interruption) Tuan Speaker: There is no motion under uniform. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no. It is a privilege relating to, relating to the ADUN. It is a privilege. Whether this is the privilege or not, whether it is a privilege given by this House that the uniform, uniform being sponsored by the government or to be borned by each and every individual Ahli Dewan Undangan Negeri … (interruption) Tuan Speaker: There is no motion of … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Tuan Speaker, may I add something here. Tuan Speaker: No, no. There is no motion. You have to file the motion. You file the motion. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Don’t need. This no need. This is a acception. Acception to the normal motion. Unless this Standing Order otherwise given. Notice shall be given, notice can be given now, which is, of any motion which is propose to move with the acception of the following. This motion need not, need not any notice be given. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Exactly, Tuan Speaker, under Standing Order 23(2), there is no need to give notice of motion in respect of 20(2)(b). And the issue touch by Member for Kota Sentosa is, one question of privilege. The privilege concerning the ceremonial uniform, who is paying the cost, is he as a Member of public by the consolidated fund, legislature or by the Member of themselves. I think this is an issue which is important and the issue has to be clarified. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, I think personal explanation, I would like to mention (i) under Standing Order 20 … (Interruption). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Standing Order 22. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Wait, wait. Under Standing Order 20(1)(i) a question shall not be asked as to whether statements in the press are correct or not, right. I can decline not to explain but in order to clarify the air, now during my times, many years ago, uniforms are made and paid by ourselves. That was there and then. Now the new incident whether your uniform if there is are to be paid by you or not that is under the new arrangement. Understand. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is why I am seeking clarification. I am not pointing finger at anyone. I am just seeking clarification on this matter whether it is borne by public coffer or borne by individual ADUN. Tuan Speaker: Clarification has been made, right. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI YANG KEDUA SARAWAK TIMBER INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, saya memohon untuk mengusulkan rang undang-undang untuk meminda Ordinan Perbadanan Kemajuan Perusahaan Kayu Sarawak untuk dibaca buat kali kedua. Tuan Speaker, the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (STIDC) was established under the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation Ordinance, 1973 No. 3 of 1973. Its principle role is to provide and regulate into earlier downstream timber industries in Sarawak. Under the Sarawak Timber Industry Registration Regulations, 1999, any person who (i) carries on the manufacture of timber which includes logs or (ii) engages in the sale, distribution or marketing of timber has to be registered with STIDC. Upon such registration, STIDC will be issued the person with a certification of registration valid for a period of one year from the date of issuance thereof. The certificate may be renewed. On each renewal, the validity of the certificate will be extended for a period of 12 months. Tuan Speaker, sawmills which have to be licensed by the Director of Forests under Section 66 of the Forests Ordinance are also required to be registered with STIDC. There is, therefore, certain overlapping of regulatory functions between STIDC and the Department of Forests. This also results in different periods of validity for the licences issued with the Director of Forests and the certification of registration issued by STIDC creating difficulties in enforcement by the two agencies. Tuan Speaker, my ministry feels that all upstream timber operations are to harvest trees, to produce logs which maybe sawn or and cut into sawn timber in the sawmills should be regulated by the Director of Forests as empowered under the Forests Ordinance. STIDC, on the other hand, would regulate all other downstream timber activities or industries but by way of principle legislations rather than through subsidiary legislations such as the said regulations. It is also felt that STIDC’s regulatory and enforcement powers should also be strengthened in order to enable STIDC to properly and effectively regulate the downstream timber industries so as to eliminate illegal activities such as the unlawful purchase or supply or import of timber for processing or the manufacture wood-based products and furniture as well as to actually promote a vibrant and progressive timber industry in Sarawak whose products should be high quality and competitive in the world market. Thus, this bill seeks to make provision for the cancellation or suspension of the certification of registration where its holder permits any breach of the probation of any written law or is found to be unlawfully employing or harbouring illegal migrants or workers on the buildings or premises is viewed or extended in contravention of any written rule including Part 10 of the Land Code for the Building Ordinance, 1994. Tuan Speaker, towards attaining the objectives that I have just outlined, the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 is now presented for deliberation before this august House. Tuan Speaker, the bills primarily objective is to add probation to the Ordinance which would enable STIDC to better and more effectively regulate the downstream timber industries and to promote the orderly and healthy growth thereof so that its products are of good quality and competitive in the global market. Having a better regulatory system by way of principle rather than subsidiary regulation would strengthen enforcement procedures which are geared towards tackling malpractices such as the purchase of logs from illegal sources or suppliers for processing or manufacture of wood-based products. In so doing, the government feels that illegal logging can be controlled as those who indulged in such activities would soon discover there is no longer a market for their illegal felled timber logs. Tuan Speaker, legal effect of the probations of the various clauses of the bill is contained in the explanation statement to the bill. Tuan Speaker, Rang Undang-Undang ini jika diluluskan akan memastikan perancangan dan pembangunan tapak atau estet perindustrian yang lebih teratur untuk memenuhi keperluan industri hiliran serta industri berasaskan kayu kerana loji-loji atau kilang-kilang untuk memproses kayu dan membuat produk berasas kayu tidak boleh dibina jika ianya bertentangan dengan mana-mana undang-undang bertulis termasuk Bahagian 10 Kanun Tanah. Dengan lulusnya rang undang-undang ini, kerajaan berharap agar perusahaan memproses kayu dan produk berasaskan kayu tidak akan dibina dan beroperasi di atas tanah yang bercanggah dengan syarat kegunaannya. Kerajaan juga berharap agar ianya dapat membantu mengawal atau mengurang pencemaran alam sekitar atau kacau ganggu terhadap aset berhampiran yang disebabkan oleh aktiviti-aktiviti tersebut. Tuan Speaker, saya percaya semua Ahli Yang Berhormat akan memberikan sokongan terhadap rang undang-undang ini yang akan memantapkan industri perkayuan hiliran kita ini. Saya dengan ini memohon untuk mengusulkan. Tuan Speaker: Can I get a Minister to second? One Minister to second. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): I beg to second, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question is that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time. Any Member wishes to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat for Jepak. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much, Tuan Speaker. I am happy to note that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill is being tabled to improve our timber industry. Yesterday, the Forest (Amendment) Bill was deliberated upon. The two bills and amendments have inter- related impact. I would like to say well done to the government for bringing up today the Ordinance to address the various issues and concerns of the industry. We all know for instance there is timber tap, we all know that. This is bad for the industry and the economy as a whole. It is the duty of everyone in this august House to see that this is stopped. If by defining the rules and regulations or amending the bill will become better, then why not. Let that industry be better organized goes without saying… (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: Yes, Bukit Assek. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Clarification, Ahli Yang Berhormat. You were saying, we all know, we all know, that is timber tap. Actually since when do we know and how serious do you think the issue is or do you know the issue is. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talip Zulpilip: Well, we hear of it. I am sure Member for Bukit Assek is not that innocent. Just go to coffee shop, you will hear and we have to stop it. That is what, I am looking at the economic, not the legality of it. Okay. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I agree that illegal logging has to be stopped and the law must be enforced. The question I was asking was since when do we know about illegal logging and since so many years ago and so many decades ago, and what have we done as illegal logging is still rampant. What have we done? Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: I believe there have been arrests, there have been confiscations, they are in the newspapers, so the problem is there and I believe they have been addressed but I believe we should do more, okay, in the interest of the economy of the state. Thank you, Member for Bukit Assek for supporting my view there. Thank you very much (Laugher). Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Put it this way, Ahli Yang Berhormat, anything that the government does which is beneficial to the people which is in enforcement of the law, not only myself, my whole party will support it. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much. We are on the same wave length then (Laughter), the government is doing it for the benefit of the people. Thank you, brother, so I have no objection you coming back to this august House (Laughter); in that respect but otherwise, okay we remind friends and other thing, okay. Now we are not going to quarrel with this. We are going to agree we do something. Okay, now we know there is tap, we have to stop it. Here, I would like to see that the amendment would make it more organized, the industries more organized and more efficient. One area that I found unsatisfactory is the manner of waste disposal in the industries. It is a known fact that some fact that some factories owners pour chemical or oil into drains and directly into rivers. This would do untold damaged to the environment which will in turn negatively affect other economic activities such as tourism fishing. I hope the amendment would also add more teeth to the enforcement of the existing laws to improve the behaviour of the industrialist. Another area that has impact on the industry is the high and efficient utilization of logs in the industry. Even wastes such as sawdust and off cuts and barks are turned into useful products. We have to aim for that. Countries such as Taiwan or Japan are still competitive in terms of downstream activities because they utilize a very high percentage of the log even when they have to import this raw material. The same goes with China. Our local industry should strive to achieve this high level of utilization. What do we have here in Sarawak? We still see timber or sawmill operators throwing away sawdust or off cuts. I still recall fishermen complaining that instead of catching fish they have balls of sawdust and their nets damaged by the irresponsible behaviour of the few. I draw my experience when I was still Permanent Secretary of Ministry of Industrial Development. Similarly, we still see incinerators producing smoke especially in rural areas, not as bad as it used to be, but still burning no doubt. They burn sawdust instead of producing more value to the industry. Now, this wasteful practice must stop. Tuan Speaker, if this amendment will help reorganize the industry, make it more efficient, create jobs and bring in new technology and more profit ultimately. I, for one, give it my fullest support. Thank you very much. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Sebuyau. Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Narawi: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Saya bangun untuk sama-sama memberi sedikit pandangan tentang rang undang-undang Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 seperti yang telah dibentangkan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II merangkap Menteri Kemudahan Awam dalam Dewan yang mulia ini. Saya percaya rang undang-undang ini wajar disokong oleh semua Ahli berlandaskan kepada pentingnya rang undang-undang ini kepada kepentingan ekonomi negeri kita khususnya dalam usaha kita untuk mempertingkatkan perusahaan kayu di negeri Sarawak dalam jangka masa yang panjang. Berdasarkan rang undang-undang ini, pindaan rang undang-undang ini, Tuan Speaker, PUSAKA akan mengambilalih sebahagian daripada tugas-tugas yang ada pada masa ini yang dijalankan oleh Jabatan Hutan. Ini juga bermakna bahawa kedua-dua agensi ini dapat memberi tumpuan yang sepenuhnya berdasarkan kepada bidangkuasa baru masing-masing agar ianya lebih efisien serta teratur di samping dapat mengurangkan pertindihan tugas-tugas dan seterusnya meningkatkan penggunaan tenaga sumber manusia dengan lebih kos efektif lagi. Dengan lain perkataan, Tuan Speaker, pindaan rang undang-undang ini akan menyediakan rangka perundangan yang lebih jelas untuk mengawasi aktiviti-aktiviti yang berasaskan kayu di Negeri Sarawak oleh kedua-dua agensi ini iaitu PUSAKA dan Jabatan Hutan. Tuan Speaker, dengan adanya pindaan rang undang-undang ini PUSAKA akan sentiasa dapat memainkan peranan yang lebih proaktif dan lebih efektif dalam mengurus dan membangunkan industri perkayuan di Negeri Sarawak. Selain daripada itu juga, saya yakin, saya yakin pindaan ini khususnya akan dapat memperkukuhkan kuasa PUSAKA yang sedia ada bagi mempastikan supaya industri perkayuan dibangun dengan cara yang lebih teratur. Dalam pada yang sama, Tuan Speaker, saya percaya bahawa ianya akan dapat mempastikan aktiviti-aktiviti yang kurang sihat akan dapat diambil tindakan oleh PUSAKA berlandaskan kepada pindaan rang undang-undang ini. Tuan Speaker, perusahaan kayu di Negeri Sarawak perlu juga kita lihat dalam konteks perubahan dan perkembangan pasaran di peringkat antarabangsa. Oleh itulah maka saya percaya bahawa kita perlu merangka strategi, kita perlu merangka strategi yang berasaskan kepada kekuatan kita sendiri iaitu kita mempunyai, mempunyai sumber yang mencukupi dan kita perlu membangunkan sumber kayu kita. Dalam erti kata kita perlu memperbagaikan produk yang berasaskan kayu tetapi berdasarkan kepada kriteria yang dikehendaki oleh para pengguna di peringkat antarabangasa. Dan oleh itulah saya merasakan bahawa pindaan ini akan membolehkan PUSAKA untuk memain peranan yang lebih bermakna dan peranan yang lebih berkesan sejajar dengan keperluan para pengguna di peringkat antarabangsa khususnya dalam usaha untuk mempelbagaikan produk yang berasaskan, berasaskan kayu di negeri kita. Dan pada masa yang sama, Tuan Speaker, saya yakin bahawa dengan pindaan ini juga PUSAKA akan dapat memain peranan untuk, untuk terus membolehkan pengusaha-pengusaha di Negeri Sarawak terus meningkatkan value added products yang akan diusahakan di masa-masa yang akan datang dengan erti kata bahawa kita boleh menggunakan, kita boleh menggunakan produk kayu kita 100% dan pada masa yang sama kita tidak akan mencemar alam sekitar kita. Ini bermakna bahawa kita akan membolehkan PUSAKA menekankan kepada value added products in the near future. Di sinilah, Tuan Speaker, saya berasakan bahawa pindaan ini memang amat sesuai untuk membolehkan PUSAKA memain peranan yang begitu penting di masa-masa yang akan datang dan di sini juga saya berpendapat bahawa penguatkuasaan rang undang-undang ini memang perlu dilakukan dengan sebaik yang mungkin oleh pihak PUSAKA dan saya yakin PUSAKA yang telah ditubuhkan sejak 35 tahun yang lepas mempunyai kepakaran, mempunyai pengalaman yang mencukupi untuk menguatkuasa segala undang-undang yang diamanahkan kepada PUSAKA. Dengan pandangan ringkas ini, Tuan Speaker, saya menyokong agar pindaan rang undang-undang ini dilulus dengan sepenuhnya oleh Dewan yang mulia ini. Terima kasih. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, we have a short break. Sitting resumes at 11:15 a.m. (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 10:54 pagi) (Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 11:35 pagi) [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: Any Honourable Member wishes to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you, Tuan Speaker, for allowing me to participate on this Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006. I have a few points to rise. One is about the effectiveness of the creation of this enforcement power to STIDC. I was told that previously the enforcement power to catch illegal logging is under the Protection Division of the Forest Department and subsequently the Government set up an additional division which is called Security and Assets Protection Unit (SAPU) to take over the Protection Division but the result doesn’t seem to be an improvement in the enforcement. Previously under Forestry Protection Division, annually they made seizure of illegal logs amounting to approximately RM4 million of which an incentive has been paid out approximately RM2 million to its officer working on the seizure of illegal logs. Then, come the SAPU (Security and Assets Protection Unit). The seizure done in the last three years by SAPU, the seizure of illegal logs amount to less than RM1.8 million for three years, for the last three years and SAPU has to spend about RM1.5 million to guard the seized logs. Whether it is justified for such spending and what has the government have in plan actually to improve. I know we are setting out the enforcement gimmicks, STIDC the enforcement power but what is the personnel now in STIDC and what plans to counter these illegal loggings which is different from previously except that we changed the entity to enforce the law. What other plans has been implaced or is in the process to be implemented because I believe for the last three years only RM1.8 million worth of seized logs that I don’t know whether there is an improvement in the system whereby the illegal loggers are logging less or there has been some tip-off or corruption involved in the enforcement so that the illegal loggers are not caught. So my question here is first point that I wish to raise is what is the improvement in the whole system, in term of personnel, in term of operation that will be implemented which is different from the enforcement of SAPU or Forestry Department. In our system here in Malaysia, whenever there is a problem arise very often the government will set up a department here and there trying to tackle the problem but at the end, the inefficient enforcement problem will still crop up and the problem remains a problem without being solved despite new departments have been set up but despite much of the tax payers’ money has been spent to set up this new unit. So, I hope this will not be the case after the transfer of power from Forest Department to STIDC. And the second point that I wish to raise in my debate here, I have a lot of worries on the power that is given under this Act to STIDC and the far-reaching effect of such provision which are in particular 5(e)(1). Any person who without a valid certificate of registration issued in accordance with Section 5(a)(1): (a) Carry out any business or activity relating to or connected with a timber industry; or (b) Proceeds with work to build or construct any plant, factory or premises to carry out any business or activity connected with a timber industry or is involved in the management operation of such plants or premises shall be guilty of an offence and the penalty is RM300,000. My concern is any person carrying out business, any businesses or activity relating to or connected with a timber industry and if we care to refer to the definition section which is timber industry. Timber industry here means :- (a) Any business or activity relating to the manufacturer of timber or timber products; and (b) The sale, distribution and marketing of timber and there is also if we look at the parent Act, the parent Ordinance, sales, distribution or marketing of timber means the businesses of or any activity connecting to the selling, supplying, transporting, exporting, importing or storage of timber or timber products that is sales, distribution or marketing of timber and if we look at timber products that is the concern. That is the crust of my debate, of my argument here. Timber products include timbers which have been processed. There is an amendment here or sawn or hewn will be deleted. That means that timber products after the amendment will be “timber products include timbers which have been processed and any goods or articles or products made of or manufactured from timber” which means literally any products that is made of timber will be caught under this Act and any person selling any product that is made of timber…(Interruption). Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, it is not an Act. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: An Ordinance. Tuan Speaker: Ordinance. Yes. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Caught under this Ordinance and any person who is selling a timber product will be caught under this Ordinance. In a way, if you sell a pencil which is made of timber, you will likewise be caught under this Act or a coffin … (Interruption). Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I was just about to mention that. Thank you. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Or a coffin-maker or carpenter. They will all be caught under this Act. Even before the introduction of this act, I have received complaints from people in Kuching traders. They are carpenters. They are not even carpenter, they are selling tables, chairs in their shops. They have been approached by STIDC to ask them to register with STIDC, failing which they will be fined RM1,000 and now with the introduction of this amendment, they will be fined for RM300,000 and the cost of such registration few hundred ringgit Malaysia a year. That is a heavy burden on the small traders, a cobbler " a person who makes shoes. The heel of the shoes made of timber, timber products if we interpret the act according to the interpretation, the definition. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, if I may touch on this illegal logging. Now I just want to know what are his stand with regard to illegal logging and their enforcement with regard to illegal logging. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I pass that and I will come to it later. But my concern here is about the far-reaching effect of this amendment, of this bill which means literally the stationery shop, the convenience store if they do sell pencils or anything, any article made or manufactured from timber is considered timber product. Are we saying that all these shops have to get certification from STIDC? That would be very ridiculous, I would say. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, as a lawyer, I believe Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa is a lawyer. We are discussing about the manufacturers. It is not … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Not the sellers. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Not the sellers. Tuan Speaker: Okay, confine to the … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: We refer to the definition section, definition section of the act, Yang Berhormat. Timber industry would mean sale, distribution and marketing of timber. And if you look at the parent ordinance, sale, distribution or marketing of timber. Do you have a copy of the parent ordinance with you? It is not in the amendment? We want to look at the whole effect. Sale, distribution or marketing of timber means any of the business or activity relating to the selling, supplying, transporting, exporting, importing or storage of timber or timber products. And under the parent ordinance, timber products include timbers which have been processed and any goods or articles or products made or manufactured from timber. That literally means that anything that is made of timber would be caught under this ordinance after the amendment. If we don’t intend to have such an effect, then we should in the drafting of this ordinance, of this bill, we should spell it out carefully so that the enforcement officer would not be given such a power to go around and asking people to register failing which you will be fined RM300, 000 now. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Ahli Yang Berhormat, I think according to the Minister, the object of the bill is to control or to nab illegal logging. Now my reading of the amendment bill seems to be that it encompasses other areas, anything to do with timber products. Would you agree with me on this point? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, exactly. That is my concern here because some shops selling furniture, furniture shops, they were approached previously by SAPU officers asking them to list down. Okay, this table how many percentage of your goods sold, your merchandise is made of belian, how many percentage is made of selangan batu. How on earth would they know that they are merely selling but they are caught previously under the regulations and SAPU has been going around doing that, asking them to be registered in STIDC. If STIDC is going to be bogged down with such enforcement, such petty matter like how many chairs made of belian are going to be sold, how many chairs made of selangan batu or tables are going to be sold, I think this STIDC would not have the time to do what this act is intended for them to do. So I urge the Honourable Minister … (Interruption) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Just now you were saying that, SAPU has been going around furniture shops checking on this and checking on that, can you substantiate your allegation? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The complainant has come to me with the form which SAPU has asked him to fill in and he has no idea how to fill in. So at that time it is still RM1, 000 the fine. I asked him to approach SAPU and asked them to come and have a look. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Are you sure they are SAPU officers? You are trying to mislead … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It happened, it happened. I received complaints on that. We are not here in the courtroom where you have to call evidence, call witness to come here to give evidence. These are the concerns of the people and reading the act, if you have the parent act, reading the bill. Do you have the parent ordinance with you? Before debating any amendment bill, we should have the parent ordinance. Then you can look at the whole picture. What is the effect of the bill on the whole act, on the whole ordinance? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Ahli Yang Berhormat, maybe we should, this House should give an indication how many have read the parent ordinance before debating or even before reading the amendment bill? Are we concerned? Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: It is not for you to teach? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He is seeking clarification from me. Do you want to seek further clarification from me? Y.B Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Tuan Speaker, I am seeking clarification from the Member for Kota Sentosa. You are extending, you are amending actually the amendment because when you mentioned the definition for timber industry, you see (a) is the manufacture of timber or timber products, and (b) sale, distribution or marketing of timber only. It didn’t say timber products. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is why, my friend, read the parent ordinance. What is the definition of sale, distribution or marketing of timber? Read the parent ordinance before you debate. Y.B Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Tuan Speaker, in the principal ordinance, it says sale, distribution and marketing of timber products but this one has nothing to do with that amendment, to that definition of timber products. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: My god. Tuan Speaker: Okay, I make a ruling. Standing Order 34(1). Now confine the debate only to the amendments and if the amendments cover the principal ordinance, only that part and once the point is made, you move on. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, yes. I … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: You can move on because do not open up the entire principal ordinance. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, not the entire, I am… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: You have made your point, so you can move on, on the amendment. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is just that the point has not sunk into the mind of the minister and once this is passed, the effect of it is going to be very far- reaching. Tuan Speaker: You have made your point. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, I don’t think he understands my point. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, just for the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, SAPU is the extension of Forest Department and they are only confined to the activities in upstream. Timber industries, the upstream timber industries. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Now he says it is upstream. Tuan Speaker: Downstream, downstream. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are concerned with downstream or upstream? Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Upstream. Ya, with regard to illegal logging and so on and nothing to do with the downstream activities. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Nothing to do with downstream? But this is only in the hansard, this is only recorded here. When the act is passed that is the effect I am telling you. That is the effect. Can the minister give an assurance that the officers will not go and force on the carpenters or even the stationery shop owners or the coffin maker? Can the minister give an assurance? And when he is no longer in this ministry, who is there to hold him? Where are we going to hold him to his words? Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, just now he mentioned that SAPU officers have been going around to inspect. Now can you name the officers who have been going around? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I don’t have the name of the officer but if this act is concerned only with upstream, so let us be known sale, distribution and marketing is not upstream, that includes downstream and this is in the amendment bill. This is in the amendment bill. Have you … (Interruption) Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Let me finish my sentence. I will let you have the chance. Do you appreciate the effect of this ordinance, of this amendment? Do you appreciate the effect of this amendment, looking at the whole act, whole ordinance and with the amendment, what is the effect it is going to give rise to? When people start complaining to us, we will have no end of trouble but this is law passed here, passed in this House. And we have to honour this law. And the ministry has to carry out their duty. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, that is actually the intention of the bill. It is to eliminate the overlapping function. The overlapping function between the Forest Department and the STIDC. For upstream activities, it is to be under Forest Department and downstream activities, it is under STIDC. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, now he is saying that he is concerned with downstream. Just now he was saying that the amendment bill is only upstream. Now he is saying that he is concerned with the downstream. STIDC … (Interruption). Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): I am saying that SAPU is only … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, we are talking about STIDC. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan: Yes, you are mentioning, I am replying to what you said. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The STIDC is … (Interruption) Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan: About SAPU. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not talking about SAPU. I am talking about downstream, STIDC…(Interruption) Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan: You mentioned about SAPU. Tuan Speaker: Alright, alright, order. You have made your point. Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi Bin Haji Narawi: Tuan Speaker, I think we should not point finger in this august House. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, if I may … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Order, order, I am in charge here. Sit down. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: You don’t have to be so fierce, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Because you are shouting. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He is shouting as well. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Do not point fingers. Tuan Speaker: Speak gently. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am and who is not speaking gently. Tuan Speaker: So sit down, sit down. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Speak gently. Tuan Speaker: I want order in the House. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Do not point finger at members if we are honourable enough. Tuan Speaker: Sit down. Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Haji Narawi: Tuan Speaker, we saw that the Member for Kota Sentosa pointed first. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Tuan Speaker, I think the Honourable Member must learn how to speak with … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You have no floor here. It is my floor. You have debated. It is my floor. Tuan Speaker: You have made your point. Move to the next point. Menteri Muda Hal Ehwal Belia, Menteri Muda Kesihatan Awam dan Menteri Muda Pelancongan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Hamden bin Haji Ahmad): Behave yourself a little bit. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: You must learn how to talk politely. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Sit down. Sit down. It is my floor. You have your chance to do it later. Tuan Speaker, I would like Tuan Speaker to make a ruling for him to withdraw the word kurang ajar. That is a very … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I don’t know which member made it. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: They made it, I heard it. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Be man enough to stand up for what you have said. Be man enough to stand up. Who said the statement kurang ajar? Who made the statement kurang ajar? Be man enough to stand up. Stand up. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Come on Honourable Member, be honourable enough to come up and admit that you made that statement. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I am standing up here. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are the one who made the statement “kurang ajar”. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I … (Interruption) still don’t. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no are you the one? Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: You sit down when I am talking. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, this is my floor. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I am the one who, you ask me to stand up. You sit down. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I said those words because the way you are acting, you come down here you must say it with proper decorum. Jangan kurang ajar. This is an august House. (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is the word, it has to be withdrawn. I urge Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: He said “Jangan”. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I am not accusing of … (Interruption) Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no, he said “kurang ajar”, he shouted “kurang ajar”. Tuan Speaker: No, no he is clarifying it. Jangan kurang ajar. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Jangan kurang ajar, that’s what I said. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay. Tuan Speaker: Don’t be rude, I said don’t be rude. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: So, if people talk to you, jangan kurang ajar. Tuan Speaker: So, don’t be rude. So the statement made is don’t be rude. So be polite. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay, so that means in future we can use the word “jangan kurang ajar”, Okay. Fine. Fair enough, if that is the ruling we will stick by the ruling, “jangan kurang ajar”. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I think that must be right. That must be put on record in the hansard. From now onwards, “jangan kurang ajar”. Tuan Speaker: Ya. Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Narawi: Tuan Speaker, satu lagi (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Let the Member for … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no. You ask permission first. Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Narawi: Tuan Speaker, I would like to draw the attention to Standing Order 33(b) sebab saya ingin mencadangkan supaya Ahli Yang Berhormat perlu belajar bercakap dengan sopan santun. Ini budaya orang Malaysia dan perlu juga tidak mengamalkan “finger pointing at anybody in this august House”. That should be the practice (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, if I may have the floor here just for a few seconds. Pointing fingers? I thought I saw somebody who is supposedly to be in control, in charge of this august House, pointing fingers and Ahli Yang Berhormat, you are talking about who? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Jangan kurang ajar. Tuan Speaker: Member for Bukit Assek, I have to point at you because there are so many of you down there okay? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, you said, you were angry. Do not tell me that you are the only one who is angry. If everybody who can be angry … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: The Member for Kota Sentosa was shouting at the top of his voice all the time. There is no need to shout. I have to shout louder to keep him down. If I have a small voice I cannot be heard. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Yes. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: At that moment in time, you were infact shouting at me, not at Kota Sentosa … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Yes, sit down, sit down. You speak properly Member for Kota Sentosa. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, I was speaking properly … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: No need to shout at the top of your voice and you know. Speak properly, in court you don’t shout, speak like this? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I speak properly like that, yes. Tuan Speaker: In court, you don’t speak like this. If you keep on shouting and the Members object, I have to stop you. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is the volume of my voice. Tuan Speaker: Then I have to stop you. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is the volume of my voice. What is the problem? For what? Tuan Speaker: Then I have to stop you. I have to stop you, if you keep on shouting and the Members all object. It’s no more the substance of the debate. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, I am speaking slowly. I do not direct only. I was debating on this bill, debating on the interpretation, the definition section. Tuan Speaker: No need to shout at the Honourable Minister. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He was, he was pointing, shouting at me … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: You are the one shouting. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, this is reciprocal. It’s both ways. Tuan Speaker: You sit down, okay. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No. Tuan Speaker: Any other Member who wishes to speak? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, I have not finish. Tuan Speaker: No, I have the power. You stop now. Any other Member? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under what Section? Tuan Speaker: Any other Member? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under what order? May I know? Tuan Speaker: Under 32 (11), if the speaker is of the opinion that any motion or amendment or continues the debate thereon is calculated to give rise to breaches of this Standing Order, he may disallow the motion or the debate and terminate the debate. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, it is not, I am not … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: You have made your point. I am giving you chance to move to another point … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright, I will move … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Because if you don’t, I will stop you. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay, I will move to another point. Tuan Speaker: Ah, move to another point. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will move to another point. Tuan Speaker: Move to another point. You have made your point. Okay, Member for Bukit Assek? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am not speaking yet. (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I am telling you. If one member from the opposition is speaking, point of information is from the other side. If all of you interrupt on point of information that means five persons are speaking at the same time. I am making that ruling. Okay? I want one person to speak at a time. Not you, on point of order and that make five persons from this side. Otherwise it’s all chaotic. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, I was seeking clarification and Member for Kota Sentosa gave me the floor. What’s wrong with that? Tuan Speaker: Clarification I would welcome from the other side but if I see there is a definite tactic, whereby four or five persons are speaking from this side at the same time, I am going to rule one at a time. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Exactly, I have no qualms about Tuan Speaker making a ruling one at a time. Only one speaker, one person can speak on the floor that is for sure … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: So, let him speak first, if you want to speak on the ordinance, I will give you chance. Okay, you move on. Member for Kota Sentosa. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you Tuan Speaker. At present, there are about, I was informed that there are about 700 sawmills not registered with STIDC. And with the coming into force of this ordinance, they will be slapped with heavy penalty, RM300,000. Such penalty would literally close or literally force some or many of the sawmill operators to close shop and the employees affected will have no jobs. Therefore, having passed this law, if we were to target at the upstream or to curb illegal logging which of course, we oppose. We do not subscribe to illegal logging if Ahli Yang Berhormat Menteri just now have asked me about my view of illegal logging. We do not encourage illegal logging. That is the law, we should not log illegally and furthermore, there are a lot of environmental effects but when we enforce the law, given the harsh (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Excuse me, can I bring your point of clarification? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Sure. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): You were saying that you were against illegal logging. You were also saying that you were not encouraging illegal logging. What are your proposals to curb these activities? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Enforce the law, simple as that. Enforce the law. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y. B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Di): (Inaudible) Actually, we are enforcing the law but you are against it. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not against enforcing illegal logging but I am saying that the Act, the amendment bill has too far reaching an effect even go down right to the carpenter. Tuan Speaker: You have spoken more than half an hour. How much longer do you have to go? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, they are seeking clarification. Should I give or should I not? Tuan Speaker: How much longer do you have to go? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, just one more point. Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. Tuan Speaker: Sure. Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): He said that, the Kota Sentosa said that 700 sawmills which are not licensed. Don’t you think that these sawmills are illegal? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Those are not licensed because previously there is no enforcement. Previously there is no requirement or if there is a requirement the penalty is too … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Alright Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, you ask a question, you hear my answer. So now you are enforcing, we are passing, making it a heavier sentence but have a heart for the people. Before we enforce the law or before even, to put it into effect, I hope the Ministry can send people out, our officers out to help them to do registration. To help a lot of them, its not that they intentionally, just that they don’t know the know how of how to register. I believe to register in STIDC; the procedure is not very difficult as long as you comply with certain criteria. Help these entrepreneurs. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I am sorry as if Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa seems not to understand what the intention of the bill is. Tuan Speaker: What is your intention? Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): The intention of the bill is to simplify all things and to make things very simple and he is contradicting himself. He is all out for illegal activities and there you are. He mentioned about 700 which is illegal, which is not licensed and now the bill is trying to provide avenues for them so that they can be licensed properly. Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I know once we passed, the intention is to have them registered to be licensed but there are still, there will be some entrepreneur or sawmill operators who do not know. Of course, ignorance of the law is not an excuse but as a Minister, as a Ministry, I think we should help, help to go, to approach to these people rather than to go there and slap them with a fine, RM300,000, you pay or I fine you. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Tuan Speaker, for the information, may I … (Interruption) Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Who is that? Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): It’s me. You may be new as a member to this august House. We have been here for quite some time practicing as a wakil rakyat and it is always our duty to help our constituents to help them fill whatever forms that need to be filled for their business or personal matters and it is not a big deal. If any of your constituents who you do not want to help, ask them to come and see me. I will help them to fill the forms. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will be much obliged if you can give me your handphone so that I can give it to them. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): 019-8861919, my personal handphone and office number is 313131 or 312121. You are welcome. You are also welcome to my office and I help you to fill the forms. I will show you how to fill the forms so that you can teach other people how to fill the forms okay. I will teach you first. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not in the industry of timber logging but this is the attitude we are encouraging. I have no qualms against that. I am not objecting to that but the same attitude should filter down to all levels of officers so that the officers … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Sure they are its just that you are not aware of it. You should be more observant … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are not aware you have to ask permission from me first. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Never mind, cincailah, okay, I have made my point. Tuan Speaker: I think you better make your concluding remarks. You have made your point. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright, I have made my point and in conclusion, I would urge the Ministry to have a review of this Act, this amendment bill again so that people will not be confused, so that the enforcement units will not be armed with excessive power which is not intended to be given to them so that we can truly make STIDC do what they are supposed to do, to further the development of the logging business. Thank you, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? Member for Pelawan? Y. B. Encik Vincent Goh Chung Siong: Thank you Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker, I rise in support of the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006. The Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation was set up primarily to assist in the development of the timber industry in Sarawak. Under the steering leadership and guidance of the Right Honourable Chief Minister of Sarawak, STIDC has proven itself to be a relevant, proactive and effective organization. I am confident that this bill will not only make various terms more specific but also broaden the scope covered by STIDC in recognition of its expanding role in adoption to current needs. The introduction of a new Part 2(a) puts the onus on anyone who wish to establish, manage or operate any plants, factory or premises for carrying on any timber industry called for to register with STIDC. It is a timely move. It will certainly go a long way in further regulating the industry for the common good of the state and the people. With this legislation and the provision to impose heavy fines on those who break the law, Sarawak’s reputation as a state that practice sound and sustainable forest management should be further enhanced. Here, I would like to add in a word of caution for those who are enforcing this and especially the imposing of heavy fines to be on their toes at all time and it allows the authority concern to impose a fine ranging from between RM100,000 to half a million ringgit. We must be sure that those whom we are going after are those that truly deserved to be punished for treating our law with impunity. When we are totally thorough in our investigation and action we can be assured that no one will be victimized and those seeking to push the envelope will learn dearly. With the full might of the law on our side I am confident that any acts which can be regarded as robbing the people and the state of its wealth can and will be dealt with efficiently. Tuan Speaker, please allow me to share my concern about matters that are related to the well-being and sustainable development of our forest resources. The Sarawak Government has long been encouraging, supporting and guiding the down stream activities of the timber industry. It is time now to put equal if not focus on up stream activities which is centered on reforestation or tree planting. It has come to my attention that there are numerous areas whereby we should further enhance in our quest to create greater forest coverage. There is a need for more regulation applicable especially to tree planting. From a more stringent enforcement to protecting, nurturing trees in a planted area from in culture and from dealing with the matters of native customary land to the issue of land lease, I am confident that if we were to fine tune all these, there will be even greater success in tree planting on top of the impressive record we have chalked up. Those seriously engaging in tree planting should be fully protected from loggers who encroached into their area for obvious reason and of course in the matter of compensation for the NCR lands there must a concerted effort by the relevant agency to provide tree planting company with the most accurate information on where this imaginary or claims line are drawn. This will serve to reduce any quarrel between the NCR landowners and tree planting companies. When such companies are given the rights and accurate information regularly and speedily and with the strong support of the enforcement agency we can be assured that cases of brokerage or criminal intimidation can become rare occurrence. On the 60-year land lease for tree planting Tuan Speaker, perhaps the Ministry concern can consider certain extension to further spur this up stream industry. With a longer time frame more party will be interested to engage on a greater scale tree planting activities and in the manner of land rent there is room for the Ministry concern to consider exemption other than its current 60 years in case where the area is especially hilly or has a sizeable amount of NCR lands. In such a case, there may be reason to consider imposing land rent on the netted plantable area instead of the gross area given. It is certainly hope that the authority concern and especially the officers on the ground in relation to the up stream activities of tree planting seek to work closely with the operator of tree planting areas. In the absence of such cooperation, mutual respect and understanding the state government’s noble vision and wise action in spurring tree planting may face more than just a few hiccups. Tuan Speaker, with this few words I would like to conclude my pledging, my support again for the STIDC’s amendment bill 2006. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Batu Lintang. Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Tuan Speaker, I had been in the last two days try to speak in this august House and now I have the opportunity. I thank Tuan Speaker in giving me this opportunity. Tuan Speaker, when we are to pass the law, the most important thing is that we see that the law is what you call, be able to protect our state’s property but at the same time we did see that the rights of the people and the liberties of the people should not be arbitrarily transgressed. I am very much concern here Tuan Speaker about section 5(c) of the bill. Section 5(c) of the bill states that the registrar may with the approval of the General Manager cancel the registration of any person if he has breached any of the terms and conditions stipulated in the certificate of registration. Here, I will respectfully say that this is quite a very far-reaching effect and a wide power on the registrar. Before such a cancellation be made I will respectfully suggest that this part of the proviso should include before a cancellation be made that the person concern who is suspected to have offended or breach the condition must be given an explanation. I think that is most important. The effect is that because a license has the effect of the right to his livelihood. What would happen if he is innocent that the breach of the license was not cause by him? Then I would respectfully suggest that we are not doing justice in this matter. Again, Tuan Speaker, what I would say here is that a clause must be included that the person should be given a grace period to make an explanation. May be ten days or fourteen days to be forwarded to the registrar and if the explanation is not satisfactory, only then action be taken to revoke the license. But again, Tuan Speaker again on 5(c)(b) offences relating to fraud, corruption and dishonesty. This is a very wide clause which could means any type of fraud, any type of corruption and dishonesty. Are we willing to cancel license of this nature if a person involve in corruption or bribering a policeman on the road then we can cancel his license. I think it should not be justified. So, the law must be clear, it must be the relation only with timber industries. It must be corruption or bribery concern with the timber industries. Nothing else more than that. We cannot make the law so wide enough to catch everybody, every licensees. This in turn I feel Tuan Speaker that the Minister hopefully will look into the matter. Fraud again is also wide here. How about company directors or other type of industries or businesses? This also I think we need to take into deep consideration. I hope this august House will also to look into the element of dishonesty, what type of dishonesty is that? There are a lot of things under the penal code and many other laws concern about dishonesty. We have to look into it very very carefully before this bill be passed. As my colleague said just now, the definition is very important of any bill because we will have problems later on when person be arrested and charge in court unnecessarily, definitely he will go to defend himself in the court of law. This will create a lot of dissatisfactions among the licensees and then the rakyat will not be happy with us. What the Honourable Member of Kota Sentosa has said just now, the definition of timber products … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I think that point had been covered, Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Batu Lintang so you can move on. Don’t repeat. Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Yes, Tuan Speaker. I am just supporting the views of the Member for Kota Sentosa … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Yes, you can say that but move on. Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Yes, so what I hope in this august House we are Members of the Honourable House to make legislations but I pray that no pin pointing of fingers at each other unnecessarily because it would unnecessarily provoke people to lose temper. I beg Tuan Speaker, that if my opinion is not in line or in tune with some Members of this august House, please excuse me. Thank you very much. Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastuktur dan Perhubungan (Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): For or against the bill? Tuan Speaker: The Minister is asking you, are you supporting or against the bill? Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Pardon me? Tuan Speaker: Are you supporting or are you against the bill? Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: I am objecting to the bill because of far-reaching effect… Tuan Speaker: So you oppose the bill? Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Yes. Tuan Speaker: Ok, any other Members? We have a lunch break to enable the Minister to wind up and sitting resumes at 2:00 p.m. (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 12:25 tengahari) (Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 2:18 petang) [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tanjung Datu. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan bin Haji Satem: Tuan Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to participate in this debate. In this debate on the STIDC amendment, I will try if, as far as I can, to separate the wood from the trees in this matter. It is all I believe a matter of interpretation. The Honourable Member for Sentosa said, that if this amendments are approved and become law then it shall apply to people selling wooden pencils, shoes with wood materials and so on. So that it will apply to all parties that have dealing with timber or timber products. I think that is his interpretation and I believe it is a wrong interpretation and we cannot accept that interpretation. (Applause). Surely in our attempt to supervise and control the timber industry we do not wish to widen the net so far as to affect people who have no consequence with regard to our regulating the timber processing industry. It does not apply to people dealing with finished product. It only applies to people who are in the process of processing timber. It is made clear I believe in the definition of timber industry. It says here timber industry means any business or activity relating to the manufacture of timber or timber products that is the first part. And where it refers to the sale, distribution and marketing, it stops short of saying ‘timber’ and ‘timber products’, it just says of ‘timber’, it does not go further or ‘timber product’ as in the first limb of the amendment. So it applies to manufacturers, yes, it applies to manufacturer dealing with timber, but it does not apply to the people who sell, distribute the finished products. I think that is quite clear in the amendment. So, all these shouting, all these emphasis here and emphasis there has no consequences, it just boils down to the question of interpretation. And I believe the people who will enforce these regulations, will be reasonable enough not to include this interpretation, even if, even if, the Member for Kota Sentosa interpretation is correct, surely as a matter of policy, the enforcing authority will not include this group of people dealing with timber products. So, I hope that is very clear. The second point I wish to make is sometime we are confused about why is it that we require people in the business of timber processing to register themselves. Why is it some people are afraid to register themselves. We wish the timber industry to be run on legal proper lines. If you are really an honest manufacturer of timber products, I don’t think you will be afraid to register yourself. If you are a legal, straightforward, honest sawmill operator, why are you afraid to register yourself? You might be afraid because once you register, the government will know where you are, what you are, what you are doing, or what you are not doing. So, honest people will not be afraid of this. Only those who have something to hide of something will be afraid. So, he mentioned 700 unregistered sawmills, I don’t know, that is his figurelah. I have not carried out survey of how many sawmills there are. But surely he does not defend them for not registering their business. The reason why we need, we require them to be registered, so that they will be operating in a proper place with proper processes and using raw material from proper and legal sources. That is the purpose of registration and giving STIDC regulatory power. Is there something wrong with that? I don’t think there is something wrong with the government trying to put the timber industry on a proper basis. And it is a matter of regret that they refused to support this amendment. At the same time they say they are against illegal logging, but when we try to put a stop to it, they say don’t do that. We do not support your amendment. When we try to make it more effective, we do not support your proposed amendment. You can support it with reservation, yes, with your suggestion, yes, but don’t oppose the principle idea. That is what we might not be clear off at this stage. Yes, I give way. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you. I think Ahli Yang Berhormat for Tanjung Datu is confused as to our stand, we have already made the stand very clear that we opposed to the illegal logging. Just that the way to do it, it may be too harsh and we appeal to the government to soften in the implementation and enforcement. We, on principle we agreed totally to curb, but, just that, just that, just that, just that to help them, those who do not intentionally breach the act. But, due to ignorant of the law, help them to do their registration first. So, what is your opinion on that? Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): That you are now supporting the amendment to this bill? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not supporting the act because it is too widely worded. We would like to have it amended so that to make the intention of the legislator more clearly, so that there will not be any ambiguity in the enforcement. Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan bin Haji Satem: It is common practice, I believe with government, especially with new legislation to introduce the legislation to this industry to inform them about it, to give notice to them and even to hold seminars with industry, it is quite a common practice before the law is actually implemented. And in many cases, before prosecution or before seizure, notice is given as an administrative measure, so that the industry is aware of the presence of this law. That is the common practice, we just don’t go in there, pick up any Tom, Dick and Harry and prosecute him. We give him a chance first, and that I believe is common practice especially with new law. That is a … any more interruption. No more? (Applause) Now, that is the purpose of registration and I hope they do not defend those people who refused to register. We have a problem in this state of illegal felling of timber or people encouraging the movement of process timber illegally and so on. Well, we have to solve that problem, I am sure the opposition can see that, instead of just saying, this, that and the other matter which is not relevant to the issue in hand. Now for these reasons and for the reasons given the Barisan Nasional Members of this Dewan, I am very happy except, perhaps, in the administration of the new law. On the administration of the new law, we will use, the government will use its discretion to, as a matter of public policy to enforce this and not yet enforce that. There are some stages of enforcement, give them notice or seminars, take the industry into our confidence and those who are honest will give a full cooperation. So that we will prevent the occurrence of this thing before it actually occurs. And with those comments, I fully support the amendment. Tuan Speaker: Any other Members wishes to speak. I call upon Honourable Minister to wind up. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hassan): Tuan Speaker, saya ingin mengambil kesempatan ini untuk mengucapkan berbanyak-banyak terima kasih kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat kerana telah membahas Rang Undang-Undang Perbadanan Kemajuan Perusahaan Kayu Sarawak (Pindaan) 2006 ini sebentar tadi khususnya Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak, Sebuyau, Palawan dan Tanjung Datu yang telah memberi sokongan yang padu terhadap pindaan Rang Undang-Undang ini. Saya ingin mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tanjung Datu yang sebenarnya telahpun menyentuh mengenai dengan kekeliruan yang timbul seperti yang dibangkitkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa. Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman dewan yang mulia ini, pindaan kepada ordinan PUSAKA ini bertujuan untuk memastikan bahawa industri perkayuan memperolehi bekalan kayu atau bahan mentah dari sumber yang sah. Di samping itu, ia juga adalah untuk memastikan bahawa kilang atau syarikat tersebut terletak di kawasan yang dikhas untuk industri perkayuan. Dengan itu, aktiviti-aktiviti industri ini tidak menimbulkan masalah pencemaran alam sekitar dan gangguan sosial. Semua inisiatif ini ialah untuk memastikan supaya industri perkayuan negeri berkembang secara teratur, terkawal dan efektif dan menyumbang kepada perkembangan ekonomi yang berterusan. Untuk makluman dewan yang mulia ini, mana-mana aktiviti yang melibatkan pemprosesan, perusahaan dan pengeluaran kayu serta produk kayu adalah dibawah bidang kuasa PUSAKA. Untuk syarikat-syarikat yang menghasilkan produk kayu jadual satu of the STIDC Registration Regulation 1999 telah menyenaraikan secara terperinci jenis-jenis produk kayu yang perlu berdaftar dengan Pusaka. Produk kayu yang disenaraikan dibawah jadual satu tidak merangkumi penjualan pensel atau kasut kayu seperti yang dinyatakan oleh ahli Yang Berhormat Kota Sentosa. Menyentuh tentang aspek penguatkuasaan, dibawah peruntukan 5(c) saya ingin memberi jaminan bahawa kementerian dan Pusaka akan memastikan penguatkuasaan undang-undang akan dilaksanakan dengan adil dan saksama. Untuk makluman Dewan yang mulia ini, PUSAKA tidak akan mencampuri urusan criminal offences of fraud, kes rasuah ataupun perbuatan tidak amanah yang tiada kaitan langsung dengan operasi dan fungsi PUSAKA. PUSAKA telah dan sedang mengambil tindakan untuk menggalakkan pendaftaran syarikat-syarikat dan pengusaha kayu di Negeri Sarawak. Antaranya ialah dengan menjalankan kempen bertemu pelanggan melalui lawatan-lawatan ke premis syarikat-syarikat berkenaan dari semasa ke semasa. Usaha ini akan diteruskan dengan tenaga kerja yang sedia ada di Pusaka. Saya juga ingin memberi jaminan kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Batu Lintang bahawa dalam melaksanakan Rang Undang-Undang ini PUSAKA akan memberi penerangan berkenaan dengan pindaan Ordinan PUSAKA. Ini juga sekaligus akan mengelak sebarang kekeliruan dari segi bidang kuasa Jabatan Hutan dan Pusaka. Tuan Speaker, dengan lulusnya rang undang-undang ini, saya percaya tiada lagi pertindihan kuasa dan tanggungjawab di antara PUSAKA dan Jabatan Hutan. Ini juga akan menjawab kebimbangan Ahli Yang Berhormat Kota Sentosa berkenaan dengan siapa membuat pemeriksaan di kedai perabot kerana jelas ianya adalah dibawah bidang kuasa bagi PUSAKA. Tuan Speaker, saya memohon agar rang undang-undang ini diluluskan. Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Can an assurance be given by the Menteri that the implementation enforcement of this fact will not be directed to a furniture shops or some shops,grocery shops that sells some articles made of timber, manufactured from timber because the intention is directed at the kilang and the plant. So can the Minister give the assurance that in this house that enforcement were made on this section. This section does not apply to furniture shops. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hassan): Tuan Speaker, kita akan melaksanakan undang-undang ini dengan sebaik-baiknya dan kita juga prihatin tentang bimbingan dan keperluan. Apa yang kita nak tekankan ialah untuk memastikan industri ini berkembang dengan baik dan bagi mereka yang terlibat, mereka dikehendaki berdaftar supaya kita dapat menentukan bahawa ianya adalah menggunakan bahan-bahan yang telahpun diambil daripada sumber-sumber yang sah dan tumpuan kita ialah bagi syarikat-syarikat yang terlibat dalam pemprosesan. Ini bukan bererti yang menjual pensel pun terpaksa didaftar semuanya. Tumpuan kita ialah bagi syarikat-syarikat yang terlibat dalam pemerosesan itu supaya ianya didaftar. Ini untuk mempastikan bahawa apa juga bantuan dapat diberi kepada mereka. Ini untuk kebaikan mereka. Terima kasih. Rang undang-undang ini diluluskan. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Ahli Yang Berhormat the Dewan will now resolve into the Committee of the Whole House to consider the bill which stand committed to the Committee. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE [Tuan Pengerusi mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan shall now consider the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Clauses 1- 4 Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that Clauses 1 to 4 be ordered to stand part of the bill. Question put and agreed to Clauses 1 " 4 stand part of the bill Enacting Clause and Title Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan resumes. HOUSE RESUMED [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report that Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 has been considered by the Committee of the Whole House and agreed to without amendment. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI YANG KETIGA SARAWAK TIMBER INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question before the Dewan is that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass. Question put and agreed to Bill read a third time and passed RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI KEDUA WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, saya memohon untuk mengusulkan rang undang-undang untuk meminda Ordinan Air untuk dibaca buat kali kedua. Tuan Speaker, Ordinan Air 1994 ialah satu undang-undang prinsipal negeri yang mengawal selia pemeliharaan, perlindungan, pembangunan dan pengurusan sumber air di negeri ini serta pembekalan dan pembahagian air untuk kegunaan domestik, komersial dan industri dan untuk mengawal selia dan mentadbir pihak berkuasa pembekalan air seperti Lembaga Air Kuching, Lembaga Air Sibu, Jabatan Kerja Raya dan syarikat statutory pembekalan air seperti LAKU. Tuan Speaker, the water supply authorities have recently studied the Ordinance and the Water Supply Regulation 1995. They made various proposals to my Ministry to strengthen the provision there all in order to address and deal with the following problems: (a) Unlawful or unauthorized connection of supply pipes to water works to tap or obtain supply illegally causing severe loss of revenues to the water supply authorities ; (b) Deterring consumers from owing charges for water supplied to them and to assist in the recovery of such debts: (c) Rampant incidence of theft or illegal removal of water meters resulting in financial losses to the water supply authorities. What in terms of revenue water loss when the meters was stolen or taken away and to purchase new meters for reinstallation to make sure supply of water to the affected consumers. Tuan Speaker, tap water is on the increase. It is proposed that a specific provision be included in the ordinance to deter these unlawful activities by unscrupulous people. Penalties will be increased with different scale for those who are unlawfully connect water supply for domestic use, commercial use and industrial use. The two later categories attract higher penalties as the volume of water are unlawfully tapped for commercial and industrial consumption is likely to be much-much higher than for domestic use. The unlawful connection of water supply may not be done by the errand consumer himself or alone but with the assistance of those who have the technical skills to do it such as a pipe fitter hence the amendments proposed that a pipe fitter may be have guilty of aiding and abetting the illegal connection and if he is a licensed fitter upon conviction, the court may order the cancellation or suspension of his license. These measures are designed to eliminate the current problem of unlawful connection of water supply and loss of revenue suffered by the Water Supply Authorities. Tuan Speaker, every consumer should pay for the water supplied to and consumed by them. But the amount of unpaid charges owed by consumers to Water Supply Authorities are substantial. To date, the amount of arrears of water charges exceed RM24 million. To address this problem, it is proposed to adopt two-pronged approach:- (a) To make an applicant for water supply pay whatever charges and arrears or owing for water previously supplied to the premises in respect of which the applicant seeks supply, (b) To make an applicant for water supply pay whatever outstanding charges due and payable by him to any water supply authorities in respect of water supplied to other premises currently or previously owned, occupied or used by him. This would facilitate the recovery of his arrears or payment for water supplied to him previously for premises owned, occupied and used by him. Record shows that some errand consumers especially tenants move from place to place and owed water charges for each of their place which he rented or stayed or used for accommodation or business which may have failed. This amendment, it is envisaged to put a stop to this malpractice. Tuan Speaker, the current phenomena of theft for metal articles like manhole covers etc. also hit the Water Supply Authorities in Sarawak. Currently, the record of the Kuching Water Board, Sibu Water Board and LAKU show that the theft of water meters is on the increase and unless the law is strengthen and enforcement of the law is vigorously carried out, this trend of theft of water meters would continue to be on the rise. Tuan Speaker, it is proposed that the Ordinance be amended to make provision for a new offence to cover the unlawful or unauthorised removal or taking away of water meters or being found in possession of water meter which does not belong to him or to which he was not entitled to possess. The proposed amendment seeks to beef up the enforcement system and machinery of the water supply authority and this proposed amendments are found in Clause 15 to seek to enact new Section 47(a), 47(b), 47(c), 47(d), 47(e) and 47(f) of the Ordinance. Tuan Speaker, the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 before this august House seeks to achieve the objectives explained herein above so as to resolve or contain the problems I have already highlighted. The explanatory statement to the bill explain the effect and legal implication of the various clauses in the bill. This bill when pass by the Dewan Undangan Negeri will come into force on the date to be determined by the Minister of Public Utilities. It is envisaged that this proposed new law will be enforced only after certain auxiliary or related amendments are made with the concurrence of Majlis, the Water Supply Regulations, 1995 and the new rule for compounding of offences are made. These amendments to the said regulation in the new compounding rule would only be passed after the amendments proposed in the bill are passed. Tuan Speaker, saya mohon agar semua Ahli Yang Berhormat dapat memberikan sokongan padu terhadap Rang Undang-Undang Air (Pindaan) 2006. Saya memohon untuk mengusulkan. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question is that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time. Any Honourable Member going to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Saribas. Y.B Dr Haji Wahbi Haji Junaidi: Tuan Speaker, saya bangun menyokong rang undang-undang pindaan, Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 yang baru sahaja dibentangkan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri, Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam. Pada Laporan Audit Negara tahun 2003, kita telah menemukan bahawa pihak berkuasa bekalan air Negeri Sarawak telah kehilangan air dengan nilai berjumlah RM4.2 juta. Kehilangan air ini termasuklah disebabkan kecurian, paip yang pecah, ketirisan dan lain-lain lagi dan samada pecah itu sengaja dengan paip yang lama atau disebabkan sesuatu pembinaan di sesuatu tempat. Maka pada tahun 2005, Jawatankuasa Akaun Awam Dewan Undangan Negeri, di mana pada ketika itu diketuai oleh saya sebagai Pengerusi Jawatankuasa telah mengesyorkan kepada Kementerian Kemudahan Awam untuk berbuat sesuatu kerana kehilangan RM4.2 juta ini adalah satu kehilangan yang besar dan mengurangkan satu pendapatan negeri kita. Maka ini saya amat bersyukur dan berterima kasih kepada Kementerian Kemudahan Awam kerana telah melakukan sesuatu dengan membuat pindaan kepada Ordinan Bekalan Air ini supaya tindakan-tindakan dapat dibuat kepada mereka yang bertanggungjawab ke atas kecurian air ini. Pada tahun 2005, telah diberitahu oleh pihak berkenaan bahawa kehilangan air daripada kecurian ini ialah dengan nilai RM2.659 juta atau kira-kira 5% daripada jumlah non-revenue water dan angka ini tentu sekali juga begitu banyak sekali dan perlu menjadi satu tanggungjawab kita untuk berbuat sesuatu. Di samping untuk melaksanakan undang-undang ini, kita juga telah mengesyorkan supaya pihak kementerian dengan pegawai-pegawainya sentiasa memantau dengan lebih kerap tempat-tempat yang mana kita terdapat kehilangan air seperti pecahnya paip yang telah lama dan paip-paip yang sentiasa ketirisan ini supaya paip-paip yang lama itu dapat diganti dengan paip baru supaya kehilangan ini tidak akan menjejaskan pendapatan ataupun tidak menjejaskan pembekalan air negeri kita. Tuan Speaker, masalah kehilangan meter ini juga telah menjadi satu isu sekarang ini. Kita tidak tahu apakah kehilangan meter itu merupakan satu cara untuk pihak pencuri mengambil air daripada bekalan air daripada bekalan main paip itu. Contohnya, pada tahun 2005 ini, pada first half of 2006, pada pertengahan 2006, Lembaga Air Sibu mengalami kehilangan 120 pipe water meter , Lembaga Air Kuching sebanyak 150 water meter. Walaupun dari segi kos hanya dalam lingkungan RM25,000 setahun tetapi dari segi lain pula terdapat kesusahan yang dialami oleh para pengguna dan pihak berkuasa bekalan air juga. Ini menyebabkan gangguan bekalan air, gangguan tekanan air dan kos-kos tambahan untuk pemasangan semula dan sebagainya. Tuan Speaker, itu sajalah komen saya tentang undang-undang ini dan saya menyokong penuh dengan pindaan Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kidurong. Y.B Encik Chiew Chiu Sing: Tuan Speaker, I rise to debate on the bill called the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. We just make a few observations. Clause 2 of the Bill seeks to amend Section 29 of the Principle Ordinance by inserting a new paragraph (d). I can’t understand the philosophy behind this amendment. The Water Supply Authority should recognize the user who is an individual and not the premises which cannot consume water. Tuan Speaker, what if the premise was occupied by some one else before? And with the passage of this bill does it mean that another occupier or buyer will have to pay fully for the water bill of another person who had occupied premise before. In respect of the new Section 29(3)(d)(ii), there may be many reasons as to why people are not paying the water bill, many times the consumer found that the amount is not reasonable due to some leakage some where and if it is recorded and the leakage is after the meter than the consumer is asked to pay. But the consumer him or herself may not even know about the leakage until the bill comes and the amount would be unreasonably much to pay and when there is no waiving of the charge or a discount for a mistake which one never really intends to make or even know about, that is when arrears occur, that is why then it is better just to solve the problem than to pass law and demand for payment highly handedly like this Bill. Arrears could be caused by consumer not willing to pay a sudden high bill caused by leakage. The Water Supply Authority can educate the consumers by organizing campaign or sending out leaflets to them every now and then so that it can safe the leakage. Sometimes the consumer get very frustrated because of the poor services as being provided by the Water Supply Authority, as sometimes you get yellowish water supply in the pipe, or water interruptions when you are not aware of while you are in the middle of cooking, or low water pressure during certain period of the day. The Water Supply Authority really cares about your comfort and welfare, they could have put in the tank nearby the main supply line to supplement water supply during low pressure period or other ways to solve the water pressure problem so that everybody in the housing estate along the road or the housing flat area would have plenty of good water supply or they could just be frustrated by so many trenches on the road surface left behind by the water works people when they dug up the road for pipe crossing but never put back properly. Tuan Speaker, water supply authority could also designate more places for bill payments so as to make the payment of bills easier. What about paying through the internet, especially when so much is talked about the development of ICT in Sarawak, when will that be operational so as to enhance the payment of bill and minimize the problem of collection. Good customer service and good customer satisfaction will get the consumer to come back, and pay promptly. How about arrears that are more than three years old with the passage of this bill would the water supply authority still be able to collect the money and if not then why bother writing a bill like this as it really does not actually solve the whole problem. The whole Clause 2 here, deal with money owed to the water supply authority. In businesses, goods are sold and money are owed everyday and yet they survived and the business grows, as that is just part of the thing of doing business, Tuan Speaker. The water supply authority can learn from businesses, work like an business entity and especially learn how they collect money owed to them. Tuan Speaker, touching on Clause 3 of the Bill introduces a new Section 29A, into the ordinance, by this clause, any person who connects or permits or causes to be connected, a supply pipe to any water works so as to enable water to be supplied to premises owned or occupied or used by him, in contravention of Section 29(1) or (3) commits an offence. Tuan Speaker, what if there is a leakage before the meter and the event had been reported to the water supply authority but the water supply authority had not come and had unreasonably delayed or refused to do the repair works and at the mean time the consumer is in urgent need for water supply, should he or she be punished for connecting or reconnecting the water supply from another supply pipe which is near by. After all he has informed the authority concerned and has no water for his daily needs. Why should it be unlawful for the people of the shack housing or squatters area to connect pipe for their use. If connecting the water for his use is unlawful, then it is the water supply authority that has made them unlawful because you all do not want to supply them the pipe water even though they have begged and begged you for it. They are asking you for pipe water so that they do not have to do their washing in the streams nearby, where up the stream some people or other activities on the nearby land, had dirtied the water while down streams people do their washing pretending not to see the dirty things that are coming and floating down the stream. They are asking you for pipe water so that their children could bath in the home like all of our children and do not have to bath in these streams or the stagnant pond near by as where else can they go to do their bath. They are asking you for pipe water so that the husbands after a hard days work do not have to carry a full tank of water over his shoulder for the cooking needs of the house. That is why I have been saying that we should let these our fellow brothers and sisters who had come from the rural area to look for a living and who hardly have any money to have pipe water supply. Accept their applications which they have sent in for so long so that they are not made to be unlawful, let us make them lawful, after all what they need is just water, the source of life. It is already hard enough for them to come down to town looking for a living and why make it harder for them by not allowing them to have water. I do not know how sometimes we could be so unkind as even to deny our fellow countrymen of water the basic needs of life. Tuan Speaker, the new Subsection 34(2), provides in giving of notice, but the provision does not state clearly the length of the notice. It could be abused. For example, to require the breach to rectify within certain hours, only, a task that would be impossible or unreasonable to perform. Tuan Speaker, Clause 6 of the Bills 60 addition of a new 36A, concerning a special powers during the emergency. People, our people should be the ultimate consideration in any emergency. We must make sure that the people are protected first during emergency time and that they have water to use at all time. This special power should not be used to prohibit or restrict the use of water in the residential or shops so that big industrial water user can have water to use while they don’t. In another words, just so that the industry must make the money never mind our people, let them go on with no water or tighten their use of water, that would be an abuse of use in this section. Tuan Speaker, I remember a few years ago in Bintulu, there was a water shortage as the weather was very dry. As one of the chemical plants have to use so much water daily, as a result, the Bintulu people was much restricted in their water supply. While the chemical plant enjoy full used of unlimited water supply so that they can go on operating. Tuan Speaker, the new subsection 36A(1)(b)(iii), gives the Minister power to impose in any specific area or throughout the state any other conditions as the Minister may think fit with due respect to our Yang Berhormat Minister this is like giving the Minister an open check and should be more specific. This is my humble observation with concern to this proposed amendment. Thank you very much, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pujut. Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: … (Inaudible) Tuan Speaker: I can’t hear you. Is your mic working? Then, you can swap your seat. Is the mic next to you working? No? Is the entire system down? Can you all hear me? Well, Member for Kidurong, after you spoke, there seems to be a problem with the mic. Shall we have … (Inaudible) (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 3:08 petang) (Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 3:52 petang) [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, I am sorry for the breakdown in the system. It was caused by two many buttons being pressed simultaneously. Honourable Member for Pujut. Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: Thank you, Tuan Speaker. I rise to participate in the debate to support the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 which has been tabled by the Honourable Minister for Public Utilities. It is noted that various amendments under the said bill will provide the state water authority with more technical enforcement powers to manage the state water resources and at the same time introduce more determined penalties for offences under the Water Ordinance, 1994. I can see that the said amendments will kick start a new water management strategy to ensure that very important water resources of our state is preserved, protected and utilized efficiently and at the same time leading the state water authority to be financially independent. This I must say, augurs well for the future of one of the state most important natural resources. I must congratulate the Honourable Minister and the team for taking the initiative to introduce the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Tuan Speaker, I wish now to highlight some of the amendments together with my observations. Clause 3 introduces a new section 29A dealing with unlawful connection of water supply. Subsection 1 introduces different scale of penalties from different users of water. I fully subscribe to the intention to impose lower penalties for domestic users. Though we should not condone any illegal acts at all, we must realize that many domestic users are poor and are in need of help. We should exercise more understanding and care when dealing with those in the poverty group. Therefore a lower penalty for the domestic users is a clear indication of Barisan Nasional Government’s caring attitude for the general public especially those in the lower income group. Subsection (2) gives the court the power to order the licence of pipe fitters and man layer to be suspended for such period of time as the court may determine. This means that the licence may be suspended for life. I would request the Honourable Minister during the enforcement of this ordinance do consider advising its administrative office to set a guideline for suspension time frame instead of leaving the task to the court to decide. Clause 4 which introduces a new Section 34 to substitute the old one deals with the disconnection of supply pipes. Section 34(1)(a) states that the water supply authority shall give a written notice to the consumer to remedy or rectify the default or contravention within such a period as may be specified in the notice. I notice that no time frame is mentioned in this amendment clause. I would request that the Honourable Minister do insert a specific reasonable time frame for this notice when the administrative officers carry its duties so that the consumers will not suffer, the notice being received too late syndrome. Clause 6 deals with special powers during emergency. I believe this is aimed at addressing the problems of water shortage during drought or technical breakdown. We all know that the world weather has changed and the Borneo Island is not spared. Sarawak has experienced occasionally abnormally long spell of dry weather during the last 15 years. Miri Division had in fact experienced a very long dry spell some ten years ago when water supply had to be rationed and controlled. It was the abled Barisan Nasional Government that managed the limited water resources carefully during the emergency that saved the day. Of course, the same government took one step further to carry out the proactive step to locate and connect a new water source to the reservoir to virtually eliminate any possibilities of future water shortage in the Miri area. Having said that and having personally experienced the water shortage emergency during that time, I would strongly support the introduction of this new Section 36A. Clause 11 deals with the offences relating to water meters by introducing a new Section 42A. This new section brings with it hefty deterring penalties for theft of water meters. The introduction of this new section is timely as Sarawak experiences an increasing rate of theft of water meters. 29 water meters were stolen in Miri during the first six months of this year alone compared to only 17 for the whole of 2005. I hope that the new penalties will address this increasing problem. Clause 14 deals with the increase of penalties under Section 45 of the Water Ordinance, 1994 for causing pollution to the water works which is costly to rectify and may be extremely harmful to consumers. The increase penalties will hopefully be a deterrent for negligence or wrongful act by those who have commercial, agricultural or industrial activities near to the water catchment area. Clause 14 deals with the increase of penalties under Section 45 of the Water Ordinance, 1994 for causing pollution to the waterworks which is costly to rectify and may be extremely harmful to consumers. The increased penalties will hopefully be a deterrent for negligence or wrongful act by those who have commercial, agricultural or industrial activities near to the water catchment area. Clause 15 introduces new Section 46A giving powers to authorized persons to compound offences under the Ordinance or regulations made thereafter. Understandably, this is introduced to enhance the efficiency of the administration of this Ordinance. The maximum compound which is one half of the maximum fine prescribed is RM10,000.00. This is by no account a small sum. We must therefore ensure that the administration of this Ordinance is properly carried out to avoid unfair or incorrect penalties being charged on the innocent. Tuan Speaker, wet years can bring flood and drought years put pressure on available water supplies. Either extreme means trouble for the people. The State Water Authority has done a reasonably good job to ensure that the State can meet the demands of water consumers. I must congratulate all past and present officers and staff of this Authority for an excellent job well done, although they faced many constraints along the way. The big challenge now and for the future is to make sure that water and good quality water for that matter is in the right places at the right time. In future, water management challenges will be more complex as population increases, demand pattern shifts, environmental needs are better understand and global climate changes. As we add a new bill to administer the water resources, we must also educate the people on efficient water usage, we must protect our water quality and we must support environmental stewardship. We must also promote coordination and collaboration among the local agencies and government to preserve and enhance our water resources. Let us all work together to have a well managed strategy to ensure that we have continuous abundance quality water supply for our people and our growing economy. We must secure this for the benefit of all future Sarawakians. With these comments, Tuan Speaker, I fully support this Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kalaka. Y.B. Encik Abdul Wahab Aziz: Tuan Speaker, saya bangun untuk mengambil bahagian dalam perbahasan mengenai rang undang-undang, Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Masalah yang dihadapi oleh badan-badan air seperti yang dinyatakan adalah seperti yang berikut:- (1) Pengguna tidak membayar mahupun lembab membayar caj kepada air yang telah digunakan kepada badan pembekal air berkaitan; (2) Menyambung bekalan air secara haram ataupun mencuri air yang mengakibatkan kerugian yang besar dari segi pendapatan kepada agensi-agensi bekalan air; dan (3) Masalah kecurian meter bekalan air dan keempat, memperbaiki prosedur penguatkuasaan supaya lebih efektif ataupun berkesan lagi. Tuan Speaker, rang undang-undang, Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006, ini akan dapat menangani masalah-masalah yang saya katakan tadi. Tetapi tidaklah boleh dipastikan seratus peratus dapat diselesaikan. Pelaksanaan rang undang-undang ini kelak akan dapat mempastikan badan-badan pembekal air menjadi lebih efektif dan efisyen lagi. Kita memerlukan banyak peruntukan kewangan untuk mengatasi masalah bekalan air bersih di bandar mahupun di luar bandar. Dari itu usaha-usaha harus dilakukan untuk membendung kerugian yang sering dialami oleh badan-badan pembekal air. Orang-orang yang tidak bertanggungjawab harus diambil tindakan dengan tegas. Pihak badan pembekal air harus dilihat sebagai agensi yang bertanggungjawab bukan sahaja mengatasi keperluan rakyat untuk mendapat bekalan air yang bersih tetapi juga mengambil tindakan yang tegas terhadap pelaku-pelaku yang membawa kerugian ke atas pendapatan dan harta benda badan-badan pembekal air. Dalam melaksanakan kuasa, pihak badan pembekal air tidak akan bertindak dengan sewenang-wenangnya. Misalannya, sebelum memutuskan bekalan, notis akan diberikan kepada pengguna untuk menyelesai atau membaiki kesalahan, Seksyen 34(2). Tuan Speaker, saya sekali lagi ingin menegaskan bahawa saya menyokong rang undang-undang Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 untuk diluluskan. Terima kasih. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pending. Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Thank you, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker, I also rise to make some observations on the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 that was tabled by the Honourable Minister. First on Clause 4 of the Bill: Clause 4 of the Bill seeks to substitute Section 34 of the Ordinance. By the new section, it shall be lawful for the water supply authority to disconnect from the waterworks the supply pipe to any premises, if the consumer fails to settle the amount due for charges for the supply of water and meter rent or for services rendered, fails to pay deposit, or if the consumer is found to be willfully or negligently wasting water and etc. Tuan Speaker, I agree that consumers have to pay for what they consumed. I also agree that it is unwarranted to waste water. But there is another aspect of life that we must consider. Water is a basic necessity of life. To deny a person of water is like denying one’s right to air and a denial of the basic human right. That is why we have to be very careful about cutting water supply off another person. Because water is a basic necessity, supply should not be cut off in the event that the consumer fails to pay the bills or the deposit or unnecessarily waste water. There could well be many reasons behind these, and it is necessary for the water supply authority to find out why. Tuan Speaker, like you, I have the privileged to read law. I understand that in 2004, the High Court held that Perbadanan Bekalan Air Pulau Pinang Sdn. Bhd.’s attempt to cut off the water supply was an oppressive act done with the interest of pressuring the consumer into submission and making the payment. Because it was an oppressive act, it was not permissible to cut off the water supply. If people do not pay up for money owed to the water supply authority, the authority can always go to court to recover the debts and there are procedures or orders that the court could make to enforce the recovery of such debts. The court provides the avenue for justice for all parties concerned. Let the court hear it out and decide instead of one being twisted in the arms of threats of no water supply. There is therefore not a need for us here to amend the law to the extent of disconnecting one’s water supply for the money he owed. I heard that in some countries water for domestic use is free but look at where we stand in our proud State of Sarawak where rainfall is among the highest in the world. To disconnect the water supply to the premises may affect lives of the people. We should not enact laws that will take away our rights to our basic amenities. Tuan Speaker, I now proceed to touch on Clause 11 of the Bill. Clause 11 adds a new Section 42A " Offences relating to water meters. Theft of scrap metals and metal covers had become very rampant nowadays. Once there is supply, there is demand. Offenders are those who steal and those who buy the scrap metals. Now, theft of water meters have become rampant also. I have been told that unlike scrap metals, water meters fetch a high price because the metal is of far more superior quality. I agree that those water meter thieves ought to be punished. On the other hand, we must also realize that is it so easy for the dealers of scrap metals to distinguish water meters from scrap metal. They only need to spend a little time to look into the pile of metals brought to them … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, clarification. Tuan Speaker: Are you taking it? Okay. Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Just now the Honourable Member for Pending said that in other developed countries the water free and also in Sarawak we have plenty of rain. Does the Honourable Member for Pending said that the government should provide free water in Sarawak? Tuan Speaker: Are you advocating free water? Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: If the government can do so, why not? We should. We have the highest rainfall in the world. So I may proceed. Tuan Speaker: Proceed. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Yes. Are you giving way? Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Ya. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): May I ask which country gives her water free? To the … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Which country is giving water free? Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: New Zealand. New Zealand. Tuan Speaker: New Zealand? Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Yes … (Interruption) Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Tuan Speaker, I am New Zealand too and I don’t believe its water is free…(Interruption) Tuan Speaker: One at a time. And then one word of caution, don’t press too many button simultaneously. Otherwise it doesn’t work. One at a time. Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Tuan Speaker, I think that..(Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pujut. are you giving way? Pujut. Member for Pujut. Okay. Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Pujut? Okay. Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: Thank you, Tuan Speaker. I would like to ask the Honourable Member for Pending, when she said rainwater is abundant, the water should be free. How does she propose to cover the cost of turning the water, raw water into consumable water? Thank you. Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: If I may emphasise on don’t spend too much money in building the new DUN building, then we have the money … (Applause) Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): It is irrelevant … (Laughter) Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Tuan Speaker, I now proceed to touch on Clause 11 of the Bill. Clause 11 adds a new Section 42A " Offences relating to water meters. I agree that those water meter thieves ought to be punished. On the other hand, we must also realize that is it so easy for the dealers of scrap metals to distinguish water meters from scrap metal. They only need to spend a little time to look into the pile of metals brought to them. I concur that heavy penalty must be meted out to the thieves so that people are deterred from committing the crime. In fact, the dealers must be equally punished if they are found buying the water meters without taking reasonable steps to ensure that they are not accomplice to the crime. Just like it is an offence to sell turtle eggs without permit, it should be equally an offence to buy them. But the law must be properly enforced. The existence of the law is not of any use if the law is not enforced. I now come to Clause 16 of the bill. It provides by a new Section 47B the power of arrest. As with all criminal procedure, I urge that whenever any authorized officer wants to make a search on any conveyance, building or facility it should be armed with a search warrant. Otherwise, the power may be easily abused. In an application for a search warrant, credible information, reasonable complaint, reasonable information of offence must be received before a search warrant to be issued. Lastly, the person arrested must be produced to the court within 24 hours after being taken into custody by the officer in charge of the police station. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Jepak. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much, Tuan Speaker. I hope I don’t damage the PA system while talking about water. After my neighbour from Kidurong spoke, the PA system broke down. If it happens after me then people from Bintulu, they restore their power, supernatural. So we are not those gangs…(Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Maybe Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak wouldn’t be too watery. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: No. It is watery subject we are talking about so it has to be a bit watery. That is a very fluid sort of discussion I can assure you. Now, let me start. Water is a precious item, a precious commodity. It is good that we have this amendment. If you look at new Section 29A, this is to stop theft. Thievery or theft of any commodity is important in any society. If there is unlawful connection, we have to stop it and preventive measure is important but I would like to draw your attention to (1)(c). If I am not exceeding RM50,000 or imprisonment not exceeding one year or both such fine and imprisonment if the water is used by him for industrial purposes. I don’t know how rampant but I have read in newspapers there is such thing people tapping water paying domestic rate for industrial purpose. Lets talk about big factory. If they are allowed to get away with it, they will be stealing a lot of water. So, I am of the opinion that RM50,000 might be too lenient. I would like to say if the fare has gone to hundreds of thousand, they should be fined hundreds of thousand, not 50,000. Why not imprisonment as well? This is to discipline people and to stop theft. If people want to argue with me, feel free. If you want people to allow theft, I don’t agree. So, it should be increased. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Thank you, Ahli Yang Berhormat. Even if the penalty is too stiff, you know, officers enforcing them tend to come in the bumper. Then they reap a good crop out of it. I believe you mean the possibility of corruption is there. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talip Zulpilip: Okay. My friend Bukit Assek, I don’t believe that is true in all cases. There are honest officers, you know. Yes. Let us give them an applause. There are honest officers, government officers in this room. (Applause) Now, many I can assure you if not some. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: But as I said, there are some not honest. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: The naughty ones…(Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: You will also agree with me. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Okay. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Thank you. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: The naughty ones can be caught. No problem there but we are dealing with those stealing so that where the amount comes in…(Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Bukit Assek, you seem to have a particular liking for Honourable Member for Jepak. (Laughter) Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: We have to prove that “liking” in specific context. Tuan Speaker: Alright. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: In the sense that Honourable Member for Jepak is a very honourable man and he doesn’t mind. He even said “Okay. In the event you want to come and interrupt, by all means do.” So I think that is very gentleman of him. In that sense, yes I like him. (Laughter) Tuan Speaker: Please proceed. Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much for the compliments, Honourable Member for Bukit Assek and I can assure this august House, our liking is not that way incline. We are both straight. (Laughter) Now, I don’t have to amplify that, do I? And the next point I would like to raise is this. There was some dissension with regards to this connection. To me, we shouldn’t worry too much because it is provided here, the Subsection (2). Before exercising its powers under Subsection 1, the water supply authority shall give a written notice to the consumers to remedy or rectify the default or contravention in such period as maybe specified in the notice. Thus, very humane and very reasonable way to implement. And if you read the Subsection 3, if on the expiry of the period specified in the notice given under Subsection 2, the consumer fails to remedy or rectify the default or contravention, the water supply authority may proceed to disconnect the supply to the premises. I believe this is a very reasonable pace of legislation. Now, a few things I would like to amplify. My neighbour from Kidurong mentioned about water supply supplied to big industries during the drought. This is not uncommon because if we kept the water to ammonia urea, to LNG, it will cause even more hardship to the people because many jobs will loss. Now, if we recall there was an earthquake in Taiwan cutting power supply. The first power supply was restored to the industries, to the hi-tech industries. So in allocating resources, we have to give priority where economic importance which is of greater interest to the greater population will be given priority. Now, Honourable Member for Pending, is it? Oh, she is not here. Never mind. She mentioned about free water in New Zealand. I would not quarrel with her but as far as my recollection, it is like this. Those who live in farm, they drew the water from the ground, they don’t have to pay anybody but they get permission. Those who live in cities, well, I lived in city when I went to university, we had to pay for water. I don’t know where, in what flat, in what city you can get free water. I would like you to enlighten. Thank you very much. I support the amendment. Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? Honourable Member for Asajaya. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker, kerana memberi peluang kepada saya untuk turut serta dalam perbahasan rang undang-undang ini. I rise to participate in this debate on the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 which was first presented in this august House yesterday. This bill which I see as timely and appropriate seek to amend the Water Ordinance, 1994 and strengthen the position of our water supply authorities and I must congratulate the Honourable Minister for Public Utilities and his ministry for coming up with this bill. Among others, this bill hopes to increase the water supply authority’s offer, especially in relation to recovering various of water charges and monies owed to the water supply authorities, by its consumers. The bill also hopes to deter unlawful and unauthorized connection of water supply or theft of water and also hopes to deter theft of water meters, which is quite rampant nowadays, and for better enforcement procedures of the water supply authorities. Tuan Speaker, there are three sections which I find of significance which come under the purview of this bill, namely Section 29A, Section 34 and Section 42A. Section 29A relates to unlawful connection of water supply. It stipulates that any person who connects or permits or cause to be connected a supply pipe to any water works in contravention of Section 29(1) or 29(3) of the Principal Ordinance, commits an offence. Section 29(1) reads “any consumer shall make arrangement with water supply authority or a licensed pipe fitter to construct or supply pipe in any premise for the supply of water from the water works and Section 29 Clause 3 reads “when the construction of a water pipe and fitting has been completed to the satisfaction of the water supply authority, it shall be connected by the water supply authority to the water works. Any person who has committed an offence under this Section and upon conviction shall be fined not exceeding RM1,000 or one month imprisonment if the water is used for domestic purposes; RM10,000 or six months imprisonment if the water is used for commercial purposes and RM50,000 or one year imprisonment if the water is used for industrial purposes.” Tuan Speaker, the time has come for the government, as well as the water supply authority, to be most forceful to clamp down on water theft. It happened in the city, it happened in the villages, as well as it also happened in the towns. As of how this is being done, there are many ways of how water thefts are being done but the most of common way is by way of bypass. If human being who has got a heart problem, sometimes they would undergo what we call heart bypass and for water theft this is also done by doing a bypass of the pipes. So they will bypass the meter and in this way the meter will not be reading the correct amount of water that is being consumed. So, probably if you do bypass of the water, there will be no more heart attack for you. With this new provision as provided by this Amended Bill hopefully the illegal connection as well as water theft could be very much reduced. I guess this is one of the reasons why we have come up with this amended bill. Section 34 of the Principal Ordinance is amended and substituted with Section 34, which incorporates in this bill, to empower the water supply authority to disconnect the supply pipe to any premises if the consumer fails to settle amount due for charges to that premises or to any other premises under the consumer’s name. The other section that I was referring to just now was Section 42(A) which relates to theft of water meters - Section 42(A) offences relating to water meters. It reads: “whoever without the approval of the water supply authority or the consumer removes or takes away any water meters fixed on or outside the premises of the consumer pursuant to Section 33(3) or has in his position a water meter which does not belong to him or which is not for the measurement of water supplied by a water supply authority to him as a consumer shall commit an offence and shall upon conviction be liable to a fine not exceeding RM20, 000 or to imprisonment not exceeding twelve months. It is very timely that the ministry comes up with this provision, with this clause because as we can see nowadays there has been a rampant theft of water meters. I checked yesterday with Samarahan police, up to yesterday not less than 60 water meters have been stolen in Samarahan and Asajaya district itself. So we can see with this rampant theft of water meters there is a dire need of this provision or the passing of this law, of this bill to curtail the theft of water meters. Untuk menggulung, Tuan Speaker, saya ingin mengingatkan juga bahawa badan pembekal air perlu juga untuk mengatur pentadbiran mereka kerana as we all know laws we can have, all kind of provision being passed, we can have all kind of laws being passed whether in this august House now or the existing laws that are available. But the question of whether we can have a good water system ataupun pentadbiran air memerlukan pentadbiran yang baik daripada badan-badan pembekal air. Inilah yang amat perlu, yang kita perlu aturkan kerana saya dapat melihat pada masa ini ada sedikit kelemahan dalam badan pembekal air semasa mereka mengurus pentadbiran mereka kerana inilah yang amat perlu kita aturkan. We can have all these laws but if we do not have proper enforcement or if we do not have proper administration of the water board or of the water authority, all these laws will not come to anything. Inilah yang amat kita perlu lihat di sini kerana kalau kita mahu ataupun kalau kita mahu mendapat balik arrears yang telah tertunggak pada masa ini, badan-badan pembekal air perlu melihat dimanakah arrears ini ataupun badan-badan yang manakah banyak tertunggak arrearsnya sama ada ia adakah agensi-agensi kerajaan, adakah ia kilang-kilang ataupun konsumer-konsumer persendirian. Kalau agensi-agensi kerajaan ataupun kilang-kilanglah yang banyak tertunggak sehingga menyebabkan tunggakan berjumlah melebihi daripada RM20 juta kita perlu mengatur sedikit supaya badan-badan ini dan juga kilang-kilang ini membayar tunggakan dan juga mengatur pembayaran bulanan yang teratur seterusnya. Saya juga amat suka melihat dalam rang undang-undang ini ada proviso yang membolehkan badan yang bertindak ataupun badan pembekal mengkompaun ataupun all the offences that are available under the amended ordinance are compoundable, yang ini akan memboleh, memberi peluang kepada mereka yang akan diambil tindakan baiknya kilang-kilang ataupun agensi kerajaan ataupun juga orang perseorangan dapat mengurangkan denda-denda yang akan didenda terhadap mereka yang saya fahami dalam clause untuk kompaun adalah new Section 46(A) yang mengatakan; “The State Water Authority may by order prescribe any offence under this ordinance or regulation made under this ordinance as compoundable offences and the procedure for compounding such offences”. Dan selain daripada itu ia juga membekalkan dalam para yang kedua bahawa jumlah kompaun yang boleh dikenakan terhadap sesiapa yang telah melakukan kesalahan adalah jumlah tidak melebihi daripada separuh daripada jumlah maksima yang boleh ditetapkan terhadap kesalahan tersebut. Ini sekurang-kurangnya boleh meringankan beban mereka yang sudah saya percaya tunggakannya amat tinggi sekali ataupun yang telah timbul sehingga kini. Dan sedikit sebanyak saya rasa boleh meringankan apa yang telah dihuraikan oleh Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada pihak pembangkang yang ada bersama-sama kita dalam Dewan yang mulia ini. Dan dengan ucapan yang sedikit ini saya ingin merakamkan sokongan terhadap rang undang-undang ini. Sekian, terima kasih. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tarat. Y.B. Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker, my observations on the spirit and attainment of this bill is centred primarily on four main teething issues. (1) It is intended to prevent illegal taping of water. I am sure the Honourable Minister could tell us that it is not intended to go against or to go for the ordinary consumer but rather for those who does it illegally and on a bigger scale. And I am sure you could tell us also that we have suffered many losses from these actions. This provision in the bill here, Sir, is very comprehensive and it gives the mechanism for the government or the water authorities to address these problems. If I may comment just now on the matter raised by the Honourable Member for Kidurong about giving free water to the squatters. Of course, water is a very basic thing which all of us need but at the same time also if any other people have to pay for it, I think there should not be others who should have it free. If you want it free as the Honourable Member for Pending said it was in New Zealand but corrected by the Honourable Member for Jepak, I think in the kampung we still have free water and she is invited to come to kampung to have free water. (Applause). So back to the matter raised by the Honourable Member for Kidurong about giving them pipe water, Sir. I think we do have this problem also where we give pipe water to squatters then they become permanent squatters. Then they will ask for more things, they will not ask just for the leg. Next time, they will ask for the betis until it reaches your head. I think we can’t allow this sort of illegal occupation, illegal action. So, I am sure there are other ways where the government can assist these squatters in a more proper manner but not by giving them this water and allowing them to tap it illegally. (2) The second issue, Sir, is it adjusts the current problem which is very rampant and very recent, theft of water meters. Several Honourable Members have mentioned that it must have been that the meters are very valuable and that is why there will be a lot of cases of theft of these water meters. And I think it is appropriate and at the right time that the water authorities have to nip this matter at the bud. I think before nobody wants to steal water meters but somehow recently this is something which has become a fashion among those who want to profit from this trade. And it is also appropriate that not just those who steal but I think this will also cover those who buy and store and keep these water meters. (3) The third issue, Sir, it provides for a more effective and efficient mechanism for the collection of revenue from water. Previously I think we do not have in the principal ordinance such a provision to set off or to get these several bills that are being owed under one person’s name or under one company’s name to pay together or in a collective manner but I think this time we have the mechanism to let this be done so that they cannot move from one place to another and leaving a trail of unpaid bills behind them. Because, if I am not mistaken, Sir, there are millions being owed to the government just because of unpaid water bills. And I think, Sir, this one should be collected so that the water authorities can have more fund for the maintenance and for the treatment of water. And further to give more services to the public at large. Why should we allow just a few people to escape and yet this is very important for the general public, for all of us. (4) And fourthly, Sir, there is exception provision here and it is very comprehensive in relation to prosecution of offenders. So I don’t think we have any qualms about this. Furthermore it is fortified by references here in the amendment that whatever investigation, whatever warrant arrest, whatever actions that are to be taken by the relevant offices have to be in compliance with the CPC (Criminal Procedure Code) and I think that has been accepted by everybody in this country in relation to criminal offences. Further, Sir, we could see that there are provisions for compounding of offences. This just shows that the government, Sir, is also sympathetic to consumers whether they are big or small. So, if they can comply and compound and correct their unlawful ways, they can get their reconnection faster I believe in this sense. So, with those observations, Sir, I would also strongly support this Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? If not, I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to wind up. Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Saya ingin mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah pun membahaskan Rang Undang-Undang (Pindaan) Air, 2006 ini. Banyak cadangan yang baik dan kita akan pertimbangkan segala cadangan-cadangan yang telah pun diberikan. Dan saya dapati ada juga cadangan-cadangan yang tidak begitu munasabah. Ya, kita akui bahawa di Negeri Sarawak ini kita mendapat hujan yang banyak dan ada masanya juga kita dalam keadaan kemarau misalnya. Kita kekurangan air. Jadi saya tak tahu bagaimana kita boleh memberi air secara percuma. Nak dapatkan air hujan pun saya rasa kita terpaksa belanja. Nak beli tangki air, nak beli tempayan. Apatah lagi nak membuat loji-loji air. Dari itu saya menganggap bahawa ini merupakan cadangan yang tak begitu munasabah. Tuan Speaker, saya rasa tak perlulah untuk nak menjawab point by point apa yang telah pun dibangkitkan oleh Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat. Basically, the intention of the bill is to eliminate theft of water and theft of water meters. The law will be imposed rigorously but fairly. Termasuklah emergency power yang diberikan kepada Menteri. Ini perlu misalnya pada musim kemarau, kita perlu mencatu air dan dengan itu kita mahu mempastikan bahawa pengguna-pengguna air ini tidak akan menyalahguna air misalnya digunakan air untuk menyiram kebun-kebun, mencuci kereta dan sebagainya sedangkan kita berada dalam keadaan yang mendesak, musim kemarau. Dari itu kita perlu ada emergency power ini untuk menangani masalah-masalah tertentu dan ini untuk kepentingan semua. Tuan Speaker, while we appreciate water is an important commodity, people must be law abiding. Those who need water will be supplied with water but they must not be involved in illegal tapping or misuse water or participate in any activity which cause losses to our water supply authority. Tuan Speaker, saya ingin memaklumkan kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kidurong, pembayaran bil melalui internet. Ia ini sudah kita jalankan melalui Programme Pay Bills Malaysia khususnya pada mereka yang mempunyai kemudahan ini dan kita akan terus mempastikan sistem pembayaran bil ini dapat dikemaskini dari semasa ke semasa. Tapi kita tidak dapat melaksanakan ini bagi kawasan-kawasan di luar bandar di mana mereka tak menikmati kemudahan-kemudahan seperti ini jadi kalau kita nak laksanakan semua meliputi semua kawasan, saya rasa buat setakat ini belum dapatlah kita nak laksanakan semuanya. Tuan Speaker, saya mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah pun memberi pandangan yang begitu baik dan kita akan terus mempastikan dengan kelulusan rang undang-undang ini bahawa pentadbiran di semua water authority akan dapat diperkemaskan demi untuk kepentingan kita semua. Kelulusan rang undang-undang ini akan membantu dalam mencapai objektif untuk mengurangkan secara significant amaun tunggakkan yang dihutang oleh pengguna air kepada pihak berkuasa bekalan air dan untuk menghalang penyambungan yang tidak sah atau tidak dibenarkan bagi bekalan air atau kuciran air yang merupakan kerugian besar dari segi hasil kepada water authority dan kita juga berharap dapat mengatasi masalah kecurian air. Cadangan pindaan akan membolehkan prosidur penguatkuasaan yang lebih baik supaya peruntukan-peruntukan baru bertulis secara berkesan. Pegawai-pegawai awam atau pegawai-pegawai dari mana-mana water authority yang telah diberi kuasa oleh pihak berkuasa air negeri akan diberi kuasa untuk menyiasat sebarang kesalahan dibawah ordinan ini dan menangkap tanpa waran sesiapa yang disyaki melakukan kesalahan tersebut. Tuan Speaker, pindaan Rang Undang-Undang ini cuba mengatasi masalah-masalah yang kita hadapi sekarang dan kita memerlukan kerjasama dari semua pihak. Jika sekiranya berlaku kebocoran air maka mereka hendaklah melapor kepada water authority dan kita akan pastikan untuk mengatasi masalah-masalah itu. Dari itu kerjasama semua pihak adalah begitu penting sekali. Tuan Speaker, dari itu maka saya mohon untuk mengesyorkan agar rang undang-undang ini diluluskan. Terima kasih. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the dewan will now resolve into the Committee of the Whole House to consider the bill which stands committed to the committee. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE [Tuan Pengerusi mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan will now consider the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Clauses 1 " 17 Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that Clauses 1 to 17 be ordered to stand part of the bill. Question put and agreed to Clauses 1 " 17 stand part of the bill Enacting Clause Intitule Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan resumes. HOUSE RESUMED [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 has been considered by the Committee of the Whole House and agreed to without amendment. RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN " BACAAN KALI YANG KETIGA WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006 Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass. Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question before the Dewan is that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a third time and do pass. Question put and agreed to Bill read a third time and passed USUL DARIPADA AHLI DEWAN BIASA Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, continuation of reply by Ahli Yang Berhormat Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam on the motion by Ahli Yang Berhormat Encik Chong Chieng Jen. I am governed by Standing Order 29, that no reply shall be accorded to the mover of the motion, Standing Order 29. I shall now call upon the Minister. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, I was on suspension at the eventual abolition of local authorities election last night. So I will start where I stopped last night. Local Government elections involve people at the local levels. Electoral wards have, out of necessity, to be very small. In rural areas, each ward may only have a few hundred voters (bearing in mind that some State constituencies in remote areas only have a few thousand voters). One or two longhouses or kampungs may form one electoral ward. Elections against such a background would invariably divide the people, living in close proximity to each other, along political or even communal or religious lines, and be a recipe for discord and bitter disputes. These conditions could only cause political instability and perhaps communal misunderstanding. If local elections are to be held, like in the 1950s and the early 1960s every three years, the likely scenario would be that tension on the ground will cause political instability, security problems and disunity " elements which gave rise to the original suspension of local government elections in 1971, recurring. The Government’s firm and well considered view points is that the re-introduction… (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, I would like to seek clarification. Is the Honourable Minister saying that even now at this stage, after 40 years of independence, the rakyat are still not matured enough to have election and that Local Government Election will cause hard tension because that was not the reason given for the suspension. The reason was because of the confrontation and what about the State Election and Parliamentary Election? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I just mentioned that this is a possibility and let me go on. You have your chance later on. It’s a possibility. Thank you. The government’s firm and well considered view points is that the re-introduction of local government election will not be beneficial to the state and whatever little intangible advantage that may be gained from having this election will definitely be outweigh by the deficitness and hardship that would result and the detriment that would be caused to the stability and peace which have to prevail in order for Sarawakians to enjoy progress and development. Tuan Speaker, an ad hoc committee was established by the State Government in 1973 to review the structure of local government in Sarawak. In the light of the Royal Commission’s report on local authorities in Semenanjung Malaysia. The Commission’s report was used as a reference point and guide for the improvement, development of controlled of Local Government in Sarawak by the committee. Tuan Speaker, consequently the then Minister for Local Government, Tan Sri Datuk Amar Leo Moggie anak Irok presented the Kuching Municipal Council Amendment Bill 1977 and the local Authority (Amendment), Bill 1997 to restructure the local authorities. The two bills with similar objectives were duly passed and they effectively signal the demise of local government election for councilors in Sarawak. The amendments came into force on 15thOctober, 1981 when the nominated system for local authorities became a reality. In his speech to the Dewan, the then Honourable Minister for Local Government said, I quote: “Mr Speaker, Sir, the most important criterion to an effective administration of the local authorities in addition to having adequate financial resources is the need to have efficient councilors and personnel. It is with this objective in mind that the Local Authority (Amendment), Bill 1977 is now introduced. The object of the bill is to enable the government to restructure the local authorities in the state so that these local authorities can function more efficiently and effectively within the framework of national objectives. The bill provides for unified structural pattern of local government throughout the state based on the outline to local government act 1976 of Semenanjung Malaysia. In essence, Mr Speaker, Sir, the effects of the bill is to change the system from an effective to a nominative local government administration”. He continued, Tuan Speaker; “I have already indicated some of the main arguments against the continuation of an elective system of a local government administration. Surely, Sir, local democracy is not dead, neither it is dying for the simple reason that we have taken away the elective practice in local administration. Democracy will still continue because our elective practice will still continue for our Council Negeri and the parliament also”. Then he further added, thirdly, Tuan Speaker, the payers of a council controlled by party politics will not be discussed and resolved on their merits and quite possibly they are mainly determind by political consideration and also there is the administration. Affairs which are parochial in nature and affairs which are service possibility that party politics will create political fractions within the council or a local authority and there will be opposition for opposition sake. This is also one possible weaknesses of a politically controlled and elective council administration but again, Sir, the most important reason is the affairs that are handled by local government oriented. He continues “a local government’s role basically is not a legislative one, it is not. It is largely deliberative, it is mainly administrative. There is no policy involved in trying to make sure that the roads, the potholes in the roads are being mended. These are activities purely of administrative nature. That type of activities does not require a policy decision but an elective politically managed local government administration entails. Neither do for that matter, elective councils ensure the election of good councilors. Tuan Speaker, on the strength of a convincing argument by the then Honourable Minister for Local Government who was a Member of this Dewan for Machan. The two bills which contained provisions to abolish local government election was passed by this august House in 1977. As a matter of interest and for the benefit of the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, among those who supported the Authority (Amendment), bill 1977 was the then Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng, father of the Honourable Member who today moves the Motion to reinstate Local Government Election. It’s your father (Applause). The then Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng said and I quote from the Hansard, I believe that there was no family discussion before this … Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: May I seek clarification because this is getting personal? Now it’s Ok now, I am not being offended but I just … Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Nothing personal… Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Just that I believe during those times, that is 1974, 1975, 1970’s, those are very tumultuous time. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I agree. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: There are communist. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, let us hear first. I will give you a chance, let us hear first. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I agree and that is why I say that this was not discussed or either you have decided, Member for Kota Sentosa had decided to defer from what his father stood by in 1977. Corrected? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: And he is my father. Alright, now the thing is that those are times when there were communist threat, whereby I believe SUPP is the party is threathening the stability of this country, of course, of course but now we have progressed to the 21st century already. We should leave those unhappy history away and … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Perumahan dan Menteri Muda Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Dr. Soon Choon Teck): Point of clarification, Tuan Speaker, Is the Member for Kota Sentosa saying that SUPP was threatening the peace of Sarawak at that time? 1977? Are you saying that? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Before… Menteri Muda Perumahan dan Menteri Muda Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Dr. Soon Choon Teck): I think if he reads the history right it is SUPP that restore the peace in Sarawak. I think SUPP’s contribution to the peace of Sarawak is recorded in the history. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think it is a subjective opinion. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. In fact SUPP rejoin the coalition government in 1970, for your information. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ok, Tuan Speaker, I quote here from the Hansard: “Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment on the Local Authority (Amendment), Bill. The main and the most important change is the constitution of the local councils, that is to say, from elective system into nominated councils in view of the unsatisfactory management of most councils, changes in the structure of the local authority in Sarawak are, therefore, highly, timely and desirable”. Three very important words, highly, timely and desirable. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, timely, now it is timely to change it to local government election. Now is timely. At that time it was timely to suspend it, now it is timely to restore it as what we are arguing for. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ok thank you. Tuan Speaker: Member for Kota Sentosa you can raise point of information but not rebuttal. Yours is a rebuttal. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): He continues, quote: “The object of this bill, Mr Speaker, Sir, is intended to remedy all the defects of the local authorities by restructuring and reorganising the local authorities that provide efficient and effective services to our communities. In this connection, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to refer especially to Section 3(g) which is based on the lines of the local government act Section 7 of Semenanjung Malaysia which provides all councilors shall be appointed by Yang diPertua Negeri for a term not exceeding three years”. I am not aware of any subsequent statement by the former Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng, contradicting what he had said in this august House in 1977. I can safely assume that if he were to be here today, I think he would stand by by what he said in 1977 (Laughter). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is a wrong assumption. That is a wrong assumption. I have discussion. We have discussion of political matters… Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Oh, you have discussed with your father .. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: At that time it was necessary but now it is not and that after twenty years of trying… (Interruption) Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I just want to ask you have you discussed this with your father before you make the move? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Oh surely, surely … Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): So your father agrees with what? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He agrees with my stand now because at that time, at that time, he thinks that’s alright we try a new system by appointment but after twenty years or more than twenty years of experiment, it has proven a failure. It is worst than before, therefore, he said that he agrees with me now. Time has progress, we must progress and democracy must progress in this country. That is his position now. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ok thank you, thank you. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will clarify that. Role, Functions and Funding Of Local Councils Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, I will touch on the role of local authorities eluded by the then Honourable Minister for Local government at a later stage but for the time being I am to point out that it was the shortcomings of elective system of local government as highlighted in the speeches of the then Honourable Member for Repok and the then Honourable Minister for Local Government that led to the abolition. These failings of the previous elective system of local council will certainly rear their ugly heads once we have local/grass root elections. Not only that, as the frequency of local election is once every three years, and such elections would be in addition to elections for Parliament and election for Dewan Undangan Negeri which are held every five years, this could give rise to a situation that, from time to time, there could be elections of one form or another, either for Parliament or Dewan Undangan Negeri or Local Authority, every year. By virtue of Regulation 13(1) of the Local Government Elections Regulations 1963, as amended in 1967, local council election could be held any time six months after dissolution of Dewan Undangan Negeri. This means that we have the election in May, so for our local council we have another election within this year, if we have local election. Because this is required in the Ordinance. So, Tuan Speaker, this means, we, in Sarawak, could have a situation whereby elections to this Dewan and local council election could be held within the same calendar year. All these situations would present the people with a hefty, dangerous overdose of electioneering. Overdose, actually Sarawak is having overdose already. Besides, in these circumstances, not only communal or religious polarization, which I have already mentioned, would surface, but continuous politicking at grass root level and also within the council will damage the running and management of the councils and impair their ability to serve the people. At the end of the day, the rate payers will suffer from too many elections, political arguments and divisions amongst politically motivated Councillors and inevitably poor service performance and delivery will result. It is just the contrary of what the mover of this bill wants. The people or the rate payers will be paying a heavy price and subject to plenty of hardship just because the politically inclined wants to have local elections. The people would blame this government for repeating the mistakes of the colonial government for any re-introducing local government elections in Sarawak. Tuan Speaker, in Malaysia, there is a three-tier system of government administrations, (a) The Federal Government; (b) The State Government; and (c) The local authorities or sometimes called, the local councils. The relationship between the Federal and State Governments is regulated by the Federal Constitution and the division of legislative powers of Federal Parliament and State Legislatures are clearly spelt out in the Ninth Schedule of the Federal Constitution. The financial obligations of both Federal and State Governments and the division of revenues are governed by the Federal Constitution and particularly in the Tenth Schedule thereof. Tuan Speaker, in the colonial days, local authorities were called “Local Government”. That terminology is no longer applicable because local authorities no longer govern as such. Their functions, duties and powers are spelt out in the relevant laws. Section 97(1) of the Local Authorities Ordinance 1966 provides that no local authority shall exercise any power or perform any duties not expressly provided for under that Ordinance or any written law. Under Section 97(2) of the Ordinance, if a local authority is in doubt as to whether it should exercise any power or perform any duty it shall seek a ruling from the State Cabinet before it proceeds to exercise such power or perform such duty and the ruling of the State Cabinet shall be final and binding on the local authority. No local authority, by virtue of Sections 92 and 93 of the said Ordinance, can make any by-law or make amendments to such by-law or revoke the by-law without the approval of the Yang di-Pertua Negeri, who acts on the advice of the State Cabinet. Therefore, local authorities have no legislative powers and can only perform such duties or carry out such functions which laws made by this Dewan authorize them to do. Thus, they do not govern but they administer the areas under their jurisdiction in accordance with the laws passed by this august House or in some cases, by Parliament, or in accordance with by-laws made with the approval of the Yang di-Pertua Negeri acting on the advice of the State Cabinet. Tuan Speaker, today, as stated by the then Honourable Minister for of Local Government in this august House, as far back as 1977, local authorities are mainly administrative bodies. Their duties are to provide services, such as waste management, maintenance of public facilities like public parks, markets, hawker stalls, public car parks, public roads under their jurisdiction, cleanliness of public places, provision of street lightings, public amenities like swimming pool, recreational parks, playgrounds, public toilets and bus stations and shelters. They carry out licensing of certain establishments, and collect fees which are fixed by the State Cabinet. They approve building plans and issue occupation permits under the Building Ordinance 1994 and they enforce certain laws relating to parking, public cleanliness, nuisance and unlawful building structures. Under the said Ordinance the Government vests land in local councils to be maintained by them as public parks, car parks and the like. In these circumstances, Tuan Speaker, local authorities must be viewed as an extension of the State Government or as agencies to provide services, amenities and other essential facilities to the people, to licence premises used for certain trades or occupations and to enforce certain rules and regulations especially those relating to public health and cleanliness. Local authorities, therefore, I repeat do not govern. They carry out duties laid down by legislations or as spelt out in by-laws made by the Yang di-Pertua Negeri on the advice of the State Cabinet. Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. Yesterday the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa said that there is no difference between local government and local authorities. So is the Honourable Minister now explain to him the difference between the local government and the local authorities. Tuan Speaker: Minister, please continue. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Thank you. Tuan Speaker, the Local Councils derived their revenues principally from assessment rates, licence fees, stall and market rentals, and any services provided by the Councils. Apart from a few major councils, such revenues are hardly sufficient to cover the councils' operating expenditures in providing basic services for the people in their areas of jurisdiction. Councils, especially the smaller one in the rural areas always often incur substantial deficit each year and have to depend on government financial support in the form of grants or loans. No Local Authority in Sarawak is financially autonomous. The Local Authorities, inclusive of all City Councils and the smaller Local Authorities, received the operating grant and development grants from both State and Federal Governments. Operating grants are solely provided by the State Government. Developments grants are received from both the State and Federal Authorities. Example, during the Eighth Malaysia Plan period, i.e. 2001 to 2005, a total sum of RM984.7 million was provided by the State Government in the form of grants to local councils. The Local Authorities also received a total sum of RM152.4 million as Federal grant during the same period to finance the various development projects within the respective councils’ areas of jurisdiction. The detailed breakdown are as follows:- (i) State Operating Grants - RM381.0 million (ii) State Development Grants - RM603.7 million (iii) Federal Development Grants - RM152.4 million Total - RM1.137.1 billion These amounts include provision of State and Federal grants to Bintulu Development Authority or BDA. Tuan Speaker, in this scenario, it is imperative that for local councils to carry out their duties and functions effectively and efficiently for the benefit of the people, that they must work with the State Government, they cannot afford to be in Opposition. To have local authorities who are unwilling or not prepared to work with the State Government would create unhealthy and hostile relationship that would be totally unacceptable and potentially cause not hardships these councillors but to the rakyat. Financial Management and Accountability Tuan Speaker, the Motion moved by the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa seems to justify having local government elections on the ground that their restoration would ensure financial accountability, transparency and avoidance of corruption in local authorities. My first response is to repeat what the then Honourable Minister for Local Government said in this august House in 1977, that is, effective councils do not ensure the election of good Councillors. There are bound to be “bad” apples especially if people were elected on political platforms with agenda to pursue and electors in their own areas to please or to be taken care of. In terms of accountability and transparency, the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations 1997, provide a comprehensive system for sound financial management of local authorities including accounting principles and standards to be followed. Procedures for procurement of good and services including appointment of Contractors and Consultants, tender and limits of financial authority are clearly set out in Part VII of the Regulations. All local councils' annual budget and financial reports have to be sent to the Ministry for scrutiny and approval and in the case of the City Administrations in Kuching, these have to be sent to the State Cabinet for approval. The system embedded in the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations is a good system that ensures prudent and well- regulated financial management of the local councils. Indeed no one, not even the Opposition, has alleged that there are any shortcomings or deficiency in the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations, 1997. All that needs to be done is to see that these Regulations are complied with and if they are not, the officers and councillors concerned would be penalised. I can say that it is a fair and transparent system. The government has always ensure that these regulations are complied with and the Internal Audit Department in the State Secretary's Office, conducts regular audit and surveillance of the local authorities to ensure compliance of these regulations. I cannot see how elected councillors can do a better job in this regard than professional internal auditors. Tuan Speaker, as far as corruption is concerned, the government will not tolerate corrupt practices or indeed any form of malpractices in local authorities. Those who indulge in such practices, whether they are staff or councillors, will be severely dealt with. Under the Local Authorities Ordinance, any councillor who is found to have committed any offence relating to fraud, dishonesty or corruption, would be terminated. There is no compromise on this score. In any elective system, summary termination of a councillor by the government may not be possible, as the councillor is answerable to electors in his electoral ward. If he does not resign, there is very little the government could do to remove him except to report to the ACA. Tuan Speaker, having reiterate that the government does not condone corrupt practices in local authorities affairs, I want to state that anyone who have evidence or proof of such practices should report them to the Anti Corruption Agency (ACA) or to my Ministry for action to be taken. The government will always co-operate with the ACA in their investigations. However, I urge the Opposition who tend to use weapon of mass deception to gain political mileage, not to make allegations of corruption which they cannot or are unable to substantiate. Such allegations could have a demoralising effect on the local authorities' administration and politise the issue to nobody's benefit. I would like to urge members of the opposition, we admit that there are drains probably blocked, there may be flooding in certain cities but I would like to remind members of the opposition if there are two or three people get divorced does that mean that we should abolish the institution of marriage? That’s mean we change the system. It’s all because one or two drains are blocked, that’s mean we change the system from the nominated to the elective. I think I would like to urge the opposition members, if there is a credit, I think the credit should be given where it is due. Because all the times you have been mentioning about the bad things but you never actually appreciate what the council have done. Actually they have done good job. So please appreciate and by doing so I think they will also appreciate you. 25 Years of Nominative Local Councils Tuan Speaker, years of nominative local councils, the performances. The system of nominative councils in Sarawak was launched on the 15thOctober, 1981 even though legislations to sanction the implementation of this system was passed in 1977. Since the re-structure of Local Authorities in 1981, positive results are visible. In all urban areas, there have been improvements to public roads, better street lightings and maintenance of our roads, footpaths and drains. For instance, Kuching, Sibu, Miri and Bintulu are in much better shape than they were in the 1970s. The level of public cleanliness, the beautification efforts and healthy living conditions have improved not by 10% but by leaps and bounds. The councillors had followed the policy directions laid down by the government in improving facilities, amenities, services and public health and cleanliness standards throughout the State. They have motivated the Administration and the staff of the councils in carrying out all programmes for the overall improvement of the areas under their jurisdiction, and encourage public cooperations and civic minded citizens to play their roles in providing amenities for the public. A lot of the amenities in Kuching, Sibu and Miri, for instance, were provided with the active support of companies and non-governmental organisations. The close rapport between the councillors and the government, and between the councillors, staff and the public, have been responsible for the vast improvements we have seen in areas under the jurisdiction of the local authorities. In Kuching, we have the Hokkien Garden which was established through collaboration between Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan (MBKS) and the Hokkien community and the Friendship Memorial Park which was created in collaboration with the Chinese Government in China. In Sibu, amongst others, we have Wong Nai Siong Garden, a joint venture with Foochow Association, Hing Hua Garden, Taman Harmoni and Ku Tian Garden. Additionally, many of our local authorities have received recognition in the form of awards from foreign institutions as well as from the Federal Government. These awards are as follows:- No. Awards Local Authority 1. WHO Regional Director Award - 2004 Outstanding Healthy City in recognition of its trade record for sustained improvement in the overall Quality of Life of its citizens using the Healthy Cities Approach. Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan 2. National Bandar Lestari Award: - 2004 Winner of Physical Environment Category Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan 3. National Maintenance of Building and Housing Estate Competition - 2003 (Government Office Category) Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan 4. Anugerah Inovasi Perkhidmatan Awam Tahun 2001 bagi Tajuk Inovasi “Perangkap Sampah Air Buluh dan Kabel” Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara 5. Pertandingan Anugerah Kualiti Pihak Berkuasa Tempatan 1994 dan Kategory Anugerah Sistem Kutipan Hasil dan Tunggakan, Peringkat Nasional Majlis Perbandaran Sibu 6. Laman Design Award: The Malaysia International Landscape and Garden Festival 2006 Majlis Perbandaran Sibu 7. Pemenang Pertama bagi Pertandingan Landskap Peringkat Kebangsaan Tahun 2001 (Kategory Taman Bandar " Taman Miri City Fan) Majlis Perbandaran Miri 8. Silver Award bagi Laman Malaysiana Award untuk Kategori World of Garden " Festival Antarabangsa Landskap dan Taman Malaysia 2004 Majlis Bandaraya Miri 9. Silver Award bagi Laman Theme Award untuk Kategori World of Garden " Festival Antarabangsa Landskap dan Taman Malaysia 2006 Majlis Bandaraya Miri So, if we say that … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am impressed with all the prizes they won. However, despite all these prizes that they won the candidate in the last State Election or in all this bandaraya-bandaraya suffered, the ruling party, the Barisan Nasional’s candidates suffered a serious drops in their votes. I have not finish my question. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ya, ya. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have not finish my question. Tuan Speaker: Okay, okay. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: In Kuching, even the Mayor has lost the election. Hasn’t the people told you something about that the Bandaraya Councillors are not doing their job? That is why, there is drop in the votes especially the bandaraya area and in Kuching is a classic case. Even Keadilan won their seat in the Chinese area. So how can they explain that? I think the service least much to be desired. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Excuse me, can I have a point of order please? I must admit the opposition has very good propaganda machine. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Point of order Tuan Speaker. I don’t wish to draw into election machineries here. It is unfair to say that the opposition to have very good propaganda machine that’s why they won the election. I think the people, the people are the one who tell us exactly what they want, and exactly what has the government done and therefore election are not won because of propaganda alone. Thank you. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, let me answer first. Not answer, but to question from the Member for Kota Sentosa. Do you mean that all these councillors are not qualified and you mean that the judges who award these awards to these councillors are not qualified? And they are not qualified to receive the awards. This is not done by us, you know! It is done by other international or national level….(Interruption) Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, ya, I, I congratulate, I congratulate all the award winning. I congratulate you on all the awards been won but just that, just that, even despite these awards, I am saying, even despite these awards, the people, the people, that is governed under all these bandaraya, Majlis Bandaraya, they…(Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, you have made your point. Let the Minister, ya. You have made your point. Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, ya. I want … (Interruption) Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Let me continue. Tuan Speaker, there is no reason for the government to change the system. No system is definitely perfect. The world is not a perfect place in any event but whatever deficiency that maybe found in the system can always be remedied. It can be improved to discard the present nominative system of the local governments and to revert back to the old one that is the elective system, failed approach of electing councillors would only be a sure recipe to revive the problems of the past which were associated with elective system of local authorities. Summary and Conclusion Tuan Speaker, let me now summarise the reasons which I had advanced on behalf of the State Government against the restoration of the local authorities election. (1) Local Government election is now the state’s responsibility. The state would have to provide funds to create the requisite infrastructure such as delineation of electoral wards, registration and publication of electoral rolls and the setting up of the essential machinery to organize and conduct such election. All these will take time and effort and potentially vast some of state funds could be applied for development projects or cover deficit incurred by many of the rural councillors whose residents could hardly afford to pay rates at the level needed by these councils to provide them with basic amenities and services. And these I have said that if one ward were to spend RM50,000, one council has to spend RM1.25 million per one election and the whole state will have to spend RM32.5 million for one election. (2) Bearing in mind that local council election were held every three years and under Regulation 13(1) for the Local Government Elections Regulations, 1963 which decrees that local government election could be held anytime six months after the dissolution of Dewan Undangan Negeri, we in Sarawak could be having election almost every year for either Parliament, Dewan Undangan Negeri or local councils. If these were to happen, the people in Sarawak would experience continuous politicking electioneering and intensified activities by political parties and many other interested parties. Ultimately, the people will have an overdosed, I said overdosed again of elections. These unhealthy development would cause division, misunderstanding, animosity among our communities and our people as a whole. The resulting political instability which was prevalent at the time when local government elections were held in the 1950s and 1960s would badly damage our state economically and politically. (3) Election of councillors is not the solution to check or eliminate malpractices or corruptions. There is in place laws and regulations such as the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations, 1997 which provide a comprehensive system for sound, prudent and well-regulated financial system for local authorities in Sarawak. The government remains committed to see that these regulations are rigorously complied with. I repeat the words the then Minister for Local Government said in this august House in 1977, “that local council election do not necessarily produce the best councillors”. (4) The current nominative system of local councils was instituted because the previous elective system had failed and created problems. Even the then Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng acknowledged that the previous elective system for local councils had its problems and supported the abolition of local authorities election. Therefore, the government had no intention to set the clock back by reinstating local authorities election in Sarawak. (5) The present nominative system of the government has proven to be successful especially in terms of delivery of services, implementation of projects for the benefit of the rakyat. (6) Lastly, Local Authorities do not govern on their own. They are merely administrative bodies and an extension of the government of the state in a largely dependant upon the state government for funds to meet both their operating and development expenditures. Local Authorities do not have absolute local legislative powers. By-laws and regulations of local authorities had to be approved by the Yang di-Pertua Negeri on the advice of the State Cabinet. Hence by not having a legislative role but merely administrative and implementation functions. It is not necessary for councillors to be elected. For all the above reasons which I have given in great details, the government has taken a firm stand that is Local Government Election should not be restored as it is not in the interest of the people to introduce local authorities election. This issue actually has been raised up in the Federal Parliament and it was rejected. Therefore, the government will oppose the motion and I, as Minister responsible for Local Government urge Honourable Members including those from the opposition to reject this motion proposed by the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa. Local Authorities in Sarawak needs fund not election. Thank you, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Tanjung Datu. Y.B Dato Sri Haji Adenan bin Haji Satem: The Minister concerned has given a very comprehensive, very profound, very full answer to the motion. In fact, there is nothing left for me to say. Without wanted to say, all that remain to be done is for my fellow Barisan Members of this House to support the rejection of the motion as suggested by the Minister. So, there are few things I wish to say but it has already been said and said very well by the Minister concerned. So, there is no need for me to add on to that one. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Repok. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, I caught your eyes. Tuan Speaker, I participate in the debate on the motion that the central piece of argument in moving this motion by Member for Kota Sentosa is that essentially elections, only elections could stop corruptions in a short form. This is a statement of fallacy. Throughout history, many years to come, there will still be members, elected leaders being convicted for abuses, corruptions and malpractices. For the information of this House, it is interesting to note that under Sarawak current nominated system of councillors for the past 20 over years, there was only one known case of councillor being convicted for a very minor offence. Now, we have also heard statement brought up by Member for Kota Sentosa. Statement made by Datuk Kaveas, very sweeping statement saying that: “Local Governments are corrupted goods”. Now, I would like to state here that Sarawak Local Authorities has never been part of the National Local Government. It is purely a state affair within the jurisdiction of the state. So I believe what Datuk Kaveas might have said is referred to the cases, situation in West Malaysia. So the facts spoke for itself, that, there was only one case of councillors being convicted. Well, we are not saying that this is a good record, we are not saying that but we believe that under the current systems, it is manageable. Y.B Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, if I may, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Repok seems to say that there is only one case of corruptions? Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, Member for Bukit Assek, you are a lawyer yourself. You might be … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am asking a question whether are you saying that there is only one case….(Interruption) Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): There is one known case of councillor year 1989 … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: In the council? Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Ya. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: The Hansard seem to say differently. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): What the answer say in the Hansard? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I remember between 1996, around 1997, 1998, I raised a question about corruption in local councils and I thought the answers that were given to me was there were more cases than one. Can I have some verification? Tuan Speaker: Convicted is it? Charged or convicted? Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): I think it is for the Member for Bukit Assek, bring out the facts from the hansard and then we will argue about that may be in the next session, right! Whoever asserted, must prove. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am not making an assertion. I am seeking a clarification whether Ahli Yang Berhormat for Repok was saying that throughout all these years, there was only one case of corruption in the councils which resulted in conviction? Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can I, can I … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: That is why I am seeking a clarification. I am not making an assertion. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can I state very clearly that there was only one case of councillor being convicted since the year 1989. Right, before that… Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: May be, Tuan Speaker, can we have a-three minutes adjournment, we check the hansard and we see whether the hansard that I had … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: You check the handsard, the Minister continues. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Ya, I think that is fair. That is fair. It is easier, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: You can check. The Minister can continue. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now in trying to make up a case for the motion for Honourable Member for Kota Samarahan has spoken, oh, sorry, Kota Sentosa, I beg your pardon, have spoken a lot on the land issue at Tabuan Laru. Now before I proceed further, I would like to call upon Member for Kota Sentosa to confirm the statements of allegation that was made yesterday, whether he still stand by those statements. Now, I particularly like to refer to subject of malpractices against the three councillors, page 49. Now I need the facts to be further confirmed while I proceed to argue otherwise. Now page 49, it says “I think this is a malpractice, it is a malpractice, malpractice”. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I stand by what I said. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Page 49 of the hansard. Well, you need help? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I stand by what I said. Tuan Speaker: You stand by what you said. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Then we move on to page 49, subject on SUPP. It was stated that SUPP involved. I believe the three councillors are appointed by SUPP. SUPP involved? Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, the Minister is asking, you stand by it? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: As far as the involvement is concerned, it concerned the appointment, the appointment of these councillors, not the recommendation of these councillors, as recommended by SUPP … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Never mind, we will interpret it differently … (Interruption). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You go on with the argument, you go on with the argument. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now there is another third statement against or relating to MBKS, page 51. Tuan Speaker: Page? Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): 51. Tuan Speaker: Ya. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Page 51. It relates because MBKS is building a market there and also further down fourth line, spoken by the Honourable Member also, the inference is clear, is as clear as water. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think the record is correct. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Record is correct, so what you say is you stand by it. Correctlah. Now in order to make up a case for the motion, Member for Kota Sentosa has spoken gradual on this Tabuan Laru land case. Now for record purpose, I would also like the Member concerned to state the name of the three councillors, the name of the three councillors here has never appeared in the handsard. You give us the name of the councillors whom you alleged could have committed conflict of interest. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I would decline to name the names but you know the names. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): I don’t know the names, whoever accused must substantiate. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The names of the company which was, I will go to that, I will go to that, which was alienated with the land is Urusan Lengkap Sdn. Bhd. and their shareholders at that time, their shareholders were Philip Chan, a councillor, Pang Kim Soo, another councillor and one more, Lo Kong Seng. Let me mention the name properly, Lo Kong Seng. These are the three persons who are the shareholders of this company. Tuan Speaker: You are mentioning the shareholders or the councillors, the three names? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Pardon? Tuan Speaker: The three names are councillors or shareholders? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: They are shareholders, they have been councillors. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): So these three councillors were alleged to have committed conflict of interest. Tuan Speaker, I stood here not in defence of the three councillors. But more important to inform this august House on the real, true and correct facts surrounding this incident. If the facts are not going to be clearly stated in this august House, wrong and unfair conclusion such as accusing local authorities or its members of corrupt practices would be drawn against Barisan Nasional Government as a case to support the motion and more important, this august House could be misled into judging or thinking that these three councillors did commit conflict of interest and guilty of malpractices. I am duty bound here to inform this House on the actual case, the facts of the case to prevent the privilege of this freedom to speak in this House from being abused. On the facts of the case are as follows: (1) The land in question is state land. It has never been MBKS land; (2) MBKS did not deliberate or decide to build market on the said land, therefore they never apply to Lands and Surveys for the said land; (3) The three councillors are professional in their own rights, they have every right like any other citizens to apply to Lands and Surveys for state land and plan approval. They have done so by submitting proposal in their own names and capacity. Never, had any at time, that they submit it in the name of the council or in the name of SUPP; (4) Land and Survey Department has approved their application, has imposed conditions that they must build at their own cost and then hand over one market to the government free of cost for community purposes. The companies are also required to pay for the full premium and took the normal risk of business. SUPP as a political party has never been involved financially or otherwise in this project. For record available, there is no case of conflict of interest. If the Member for Kota Sentosa feels that these councillors have committed offences in one way or the others, no allegation of criminal act should also be made in this House because they are not here to defend themselves. This is … (Interruption). Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have said that if their act may not amount to corruption per se but it is a conflict of interest in the sense that they are councillors and they know that there is a need for a market in that area. Alright, now, you are in the office, the councillors’ office, there is a project here, which could bring benefit and profit to councils or to yourself if you apply in your own name or in your company’s name to yourself, then you will bring profit to yourself. Fair enough, if you are not a councillor, nothing wrong. But if you are a councillor, then choosing between profit to yourself or profit to the organization which he belongs, I believe for us involved in politic, we should put the interest of the organization which we are serving as a politician above our own interest. That is what we called political morality, political morality. Of course, you can choose here, it may not amount to corruption but there is a choice now, to profit for your own personal profit or for the profit of the organization which you represent. In this case, it is council. Well they choose for their own profit, submit the project in their own name instead of in the name of the project, in the name of council. Had they choose it in the name of the council, the council could have made RM30 million but they decided to submit it in, in their own name. That is my case. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, this argument has been stated during your interaction of this matter. Now, the Member does accuse them of malpractices, malpractices stated in the hansard. Malpractices in law amount to criminal offence. The better course of action in this particular incident as alleged against the three councillors as they are not here to defend themselves, the option is opened to the members either to withdraw the accusation of malpractices or to give a fair hearing to all parties concerned who will advise Member for Kota Sentosa to repeat the exact and specific accusation against the three councillors and it is for them, it is for them to take whatever actions they deemed fit. It is no point for members here to debate on the issue when parties concerned are not available, detailed facts are not available. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: What I have said here was said many, many times during ceramah times and yet those are all reported, so I don’t see the necessity to repeat it again while it has been said over and over and over and they don’t come up to defend themselves. That is all. If you think that this is not a proper forum to debate on this, then you raise your case that is it. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pujut. Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: The Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa had said that he had said the matters many times outside the Dewan, so I would urge him to say one more time outside the Dewan today. Thank you. (Applause). Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now in the case of allegation against SUPP, it is stated in the Hansard page 51, sorry, page 49, SUPP involved. Now as I said earlier, this House should never become a hideout for members to throw unfounded accusations and hide behind the privilege of freedom. As I said particularly that SUPP is no part involved in that, on behalf of SUPP, in order to clear the good name, we also would like Member for Kota Sentosa to repeat the exact accusation against SUPP outside the House or the matter be rest forever here and hold the tongues forever here. Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Tuan Speaker, may I interrupt for a while. What I think it is clear from the records here is that they agreed as a whole what the Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa stated is that it was appointment only, the three were appointment, touching on the appointment only. That’s all. Tuan Speaker: We have past that. Now the two Members are asking Member for Kota Sentosa whether he is prepared to repeat it outside the House today. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You can be rest assured that this matter will be repeated. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Repeated? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It will be raised again. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Outside the House? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Outside this House. Ya, you can be assured. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now, under the current nominated system, State Government will stand to account for the performance of the local authorities here. It has already sufficient built up checking system to safeguard the financial management of local authorities as explained in great length by the Honourable Member for Environment. During our constant monitoring of their performance, we are able to take off inefficient or bad apples at any time by summary termination of their appointment. And we have done that. Whereas if councillors are elected, there will be no way of termination against those defaulting councillors because they as elected Members will continue to serve for the remaining period of their terms. Now in many councils arrangement has also been made to assign different councillors to take care of different areas, many councils. And then the residents will know who the councillors responsible are. The area of jurisdiction of service by local authority in the State of Sarawak cover every inch of the land. Whereas the local authority in West Malaysia will basically cover urban or suburban areas or part of the districts. For those who have eyes could definitely see the tremendous improvement in the quality of life as has been said much earlier. We have Members from a rural area, Members from Engkilili I believe, I believe were able to see the great services extended to the rural populations. As for the urban area, as has been said much earlier, a great deal of quality of life has been improved. People appreciate the good performance in Kuching. Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, being the MP for Kuching, should also be part of the efforts to help and to protect the image of Kuching. We used to see Member of opposition going around pinpoint fingers at longkanglah. I remember many, many years ago when Barisan Members, Council Negeri Members went around together with the staff looking and visiting trying to improve the longkang, we have been ridiculed as Yang Berhormat Longkang. Now, we have also seen Member from opposition doing exactly what we have been doing… (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yang Berhormat, in the event the local councillors are doing their job properly, in the event that the people now know how to contact them, in the event the people have their telephone numbers and be able to contact them I think there should not be any Yang Berhormat Longkang around. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): As I said earlierlah, many councils have the practice of assigning the councillors to do it. Now, the duty of Members from opposition should not be confined just to get the photo, point their fingers, their service has to go beyond that. I would like to see them at the local authorities by doing follow up, by senior officers concerned, by talking to the rakyat. There was a mention that one dengue case, one dengue … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yang Berhormat, before the dengue case is touched upon, Ahli Yang Berhormat seems to say that we should do more follow up. Yes, we do. We do a lot of follow ups. Just about a month ago, I was called to a place where the drains and ditches were seriously clogged. They were really badly clogged. I phoned up the local authority in Sibu. I phoned up the Chairman. I phoned up the person in charge of health. They didn’t bother to turn up to have a look. He expects us to follow up and yet they thought just because we are from opposition therefore they thought that it is not their job to cooperate with the opposition. I really appreciate the statement saying yes we should do the follow up. We should, and in fact, we will. I can assure you that. But please, in order to ensure that the people throughout Sarawak, the rate payers got some advantage from their rate payment, I think not only follow up has to be done, services for the benefit of the rakyat transcends political boundaries. We have to make sure that those people the rate payers are really looked after. Therefore, I must reiterate, yes we appreciate your statement, Ahli Yang Berhormat. And from now onwards hopefully whenever there are phone calls or letters coming request for assistance in a particular Kawasan, please there must be some directive that local councils should respond. What I got on that particular day, Tuan Speaker, and for the benefit of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Repok was, you must write in, in black and white, only then they would respond. Now, in the event of flood for instance, you expect a wakil rakyat visiting their area seeing that the people, the residents are in big danger of you know probably drowning and yet you get a computer out or typewriter out, type out a letter of complaint send it in black and white to local council, of course you can’t expect to do that. We must be more responsive than that. Thank you, Ahli Yang Berhormat. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): There are hundreds and thousands of drains. State Government has been subsidizing the local authorities for all these roads, drains, parks, etc. maintenance because for a long time we did not increase the rates for or relevant to the services provided. Y.B. Encik Chong Chien Jen: I don’t think that the government has not increased the rates, the assessment rates for a long time. It was increased for the last five years. I believe there was if I am not mistaken is two or three times. And I have a complaint here also. I received a notice of new assessment rates which is increased by four times based on new value, increased by two times based on new valuation. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, can I clarify here. I think a lot of people still do not know what it means by increase. Actually the assessment will be based on two things. Tuan Speaker: Is your mic on? Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Assessment will be decided by two things. One is the ARV that is the Annual Rateable Value. Two, is the percentage of rate decided at the time. The ARV was decided in 1966. The TONE. T.O.N.E. that is the technical term used in the list was decided in 1966. So I just want to tell you an example. If there is a residential house which has an area of, floor area of 1000 sq. ft. and the TONE in the list was decided RM1.00 per sq. ft. at that time, so that rate will be, the ARV will be 1000 x 1 that is RM1,000.00. And if that house was built in 1966, and at that time, they wanted to charge the rate, say 5%, so we times 5%. That is RM50.00. That will be the assessment. But, if there is another house with the same floor are,a built last year in 2005, 1000 sq. ft, we still have to use the TONE in the list RM1.00 per sq. ft. But we cannot afford to charge 5% any more because there is a demand for increase in this increase in that. So that’s why the council started to increase from time to time the percentage charged. So if the percentage charge now is 28% then it is 1000 x 1 x 28% that is 280. So the house built in 1966 which has the same floor area and the house built last year with 1000 sq. ft. will have the same value, assessment 280 … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chien Jen: I … (Interruption) Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Let me finish. You, let me finish. So this is the case in Sarawak. In the case of Semenanjung, actually we cannot really make comparison because the annual rate in Sarawak has never been reviewed since 1966. But in West Malaysia, most local authorities actually have reviewed their annual rate, the revaluation exercise once in every five years which was stipulated in the statutory provision. So if you say that the rates charged here is high much higher than those in Semenanjung, the actual assessment may not be higher. It may be lower than those charged in Semenanjung Malaysia. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: I shall extend the sitting slightly beyond 6:30 to enable the voting. As soon as the Assistant Minister and Honourable Member finish, I will put the question. Please conclude your remarks. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I just seek clarification on what I have said just now. I have two houses, not mine. I have two houses adjacent to each other along the same street. One was constructed in 1980 completed constructing. One was constructed in 2000. Though the surface area may be the same, the later one maybe a bit bigger, but the ARV was 30% higher than the previous one, the one, the house that was completed in 1980 and when the owner went to appeal because once you have received the evaluation, went to appeal to council on the Annual Rateable Value on the difference, they were informed that because your house was built later and is slightly bigger and also two reasons were given. One is slightly bigger and one is because your house was built later. So, I mean that was what was told by the MBKS officer because your house was built later therefore a higher rate was charged. So, I don’t think what the Honourable Minister has said is correct. Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): What I said, I stand by because a consultant, the three valuers and all MPP, MBKS and DBKU practise the same system. The tone, they called it, that is the technical term the tone in the list is still the one that was decided in 1966. It has never been revised. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Repok. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): In connection with the rate assessment collection, maybe it is a fortunate time to explain the formula and then to call upon the members of opposition to support the government when we do decide to go for revaluation exercise. Now, the factors is as follows:- Properties completed before year 1966 will all be valued with its rateable value as at 1966. If a shophouse or a row of shophouse is subsequently built at the year 2005, the rentable or rateable value that this new shophouse could command will be at the prevailing market price or valued at year 2005. Now, the intention of government will be to value all those properties, all those properties, being their value updated to the year assuming that we do it say two years’ time, we will revalue it in two years’ time. So the rateable value will be more uniformed between two different rows of shophouses built of different times. Now, by so doing, the property of rateable value will be higher, the council will be able to impose a lower percentage charges. There are two factors here. One is the value of the property and the other one is the percentage charge. We can lower the percentage charges if the value can be valued upwards. What is most importance is the ultimate assessment rate is payable. Now on the question of …(Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yang Berhormat, Ahli Yang Berhormat was asking for support of the rateable value. Now, we have not seen any document from the government or local authority on how and in what manner those rateable values will be determined. Maybe Ahli Yang Berhormat would be kind enough to forward to us those complete documents for us to really study. We just cannot stand up here and say “look, cannot. We are going to give you our support or we are going to give you our opposition.” We don’t do that. We must study those papers in black and white. On the other hand, we talk about 1966 value. But if those houses built in 1966, were built, lets say, in some areas of Bukit Assek only half a house left. We can’t blame it, support something which we have not seen. So please give us the documents. We will just study that and I will guarantee you our party will study that very conscientiously and in the event that it is worth support, we will give you our support. In the event that you are able to entertain us with our views, we shall do so. Thank you. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can we move on to another subject brought up by Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa. He was mentioning the case of dengue fever. Attributed that it was the blocked drain. The drain being blocked. Now, the dengue fever known is caused by Aedes mosquitoes which will breed in clear, clean and stagnant water. The peaty soil condition of the land here do cause some difficulty in the natural flow of water. I will look at Singapore which is supposed to be cleaner, that is supposed to have maintained the drains well and last year they have an upgrade case of 10,000 cases of dengue fever in Singapore. So these dengue cases could not be attributed solely to the blocking of drains. I would also like the members of the opposition to help governments to educate our publics. Many of these road potholes, many of these drains being blocked is not because councils or its contractors are not doing a good job. There are many times it is the public spirit or civic-minded problems, the culture of our rakyat. So as part of the component in ensuring the well being of the environment, member of opposition should not just point at the drain and put exclusively the blame on the government. There are hundreds and thousands of drains, there are thousand of kilometers of roads and a lot of them have been well maintained. Rakyat has appreciated in silence in most of the times of the services, efforts made government. Members of this House should be honourable enough sometimes to extend some credits to the government when credits are due. Before I end, I would urge the members of this Dewan to reject this motion … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: There are some more clarifications. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Ya. There are things that council may do right but what we are saying here is now we want a better system whereby there is truly transparency accountability, accountability. As it is now the councillors that are appointed, they are accountable to the party which has recommended their appointment. Not accountable to the people directly. That is why … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: One more question. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat, you mentioned that yesterday. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I just … (Interruption) Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can I just carry on? Tuan Speaker: Ya. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now, Barisan State Government here stands accountable for the performance of our local authority. We stand accountable and we will be responsible to monitor to ensure that the performance and services provided meeting the standards of our Barisan Nasional. Now, before I sit down, there is one statement which I wish Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa to respond. During your debate with the Yang Berhormat Minister for Environment, you alleged that SUPP is threatening the security of the State. Now this is a very, very serious, damaging and hurting statement. I would like to call members whether you wish to withdraw this very damaging, serious, baseless statement or you repeat it outside the House and substantiate your allegations. In fact, you cannot make any baseless, this is a very serious allegation against the party who was threatening the security and peace of the State. We can be regarded as treason. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I was talking about history. We can refer to history, alright? We can refer to history but it takes a historian to study whether … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hon Nam): Don’t beat around the bush. Please answer the question. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no. I was referring here. I was referring to history at that time. The SUPP were threatened. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Very simple. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Could you repeat the same allegation outside the House during the press conference? Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright. Wait and see. Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Alright. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, the motion in the name of Yang Berhormat Encik Chong Chieng Jen for Kota Sentosa. I shall now put the question. The question is that the State Government restores the Local Government election to ensure accountability, transparency and avoidance of corruption amongst the Local Government in Sarawak. Question put and Motion rejected Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, I ask for a division. Tuan Speaker: Division is at the discretion of the Speaker if there is a request of ten votes, ten members. Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: 10:10, is this the discretion of the Speaker? Tuan Speaker: How many? Under Standing Order 41, is just by majority, it is no need for a division. So I rule there is no need for a division. Sitting … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Are you ruling on that? Tuan Speaker: Sitting is suspended. We resume our meeting at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 6:41 petang) |
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[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, I would like to make the following announcement. Pursuant to Standing Order 69(1), I have appointed the following Honourable Members to be members of the Standing Orders and Selection Committee for this session: Y.A.B. Pehin Sri Haji Abdul Taib bin Mahmud; Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam; Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang; Y.B. Dato Sri Dr. James Jemut anak Masing; and I as Speaker shall be the Chairman of the Committee PERTANYAAN-PERTANYAAN BAGI JAWAPAN LISAN RUBBER SMALL HOLDER SCHEME (54) Y.B. Encik Mong anak Dagang asked the Deputy Chief Minister and Minister for Modernization of Agriculture: Under RMK9 whether the government has any plan to introduce rubber small holder scheme. If yes, whether there is any specific area in the state that has been designated for this purpose. OIL PALM AND RUBBER MINI ESTATES (59) Y.B. Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn asked the Deputy Chief Minister and Minister for Modernization of Agriculture: Under the Ninth Malaysia Plan there are allocations for Oil Palm and Rubber Mini Estates, what are the criteria for setting up of these mini estates, who can apply, how and to whom do they apply for the setting up of such mini estate using government assistance: BANTUAN TERHADAP PEKEBUN KECIL GETAH (70) Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Ismail bertanya kepada Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian: Apakah ada rancangan Kerajaan Negeri untuk membantu pekekun-pekebun kecil getah di seluruh negeri untuk menanam getah kahwin di kebun-kebun perseorangan dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan? SUBSIDY SCHEME (87) Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh asked the Deputy Chief Minister and Minister for Modernization of Agriculture: Whether there are any plan by State Government under the Ninth Malaysia Plan to provide subsidy scheme to the rural farmers to plant oil palm and rubber planting scheme (RPS) in view of the increasing in price and the great demand for oil palm and rubber in the present global market. Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): Tuan Speaker, saya ingin menjawab soalan No. (54) daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Bukit Begunan serentak dengan soalan-soalan No. (59), No. (70) dan (87) daripada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tarat…(Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Tunggu dulu., (59)? Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): (70) dan (87). Tuan Speaker: (87). Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): Daripada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tarat, Bukit Kota dan Tamin. Tuan Speaker, for the information of the Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat for Tarat, Bukit Begunan, Tamin dan Bukit Kota, under the Ninth Malaysia Plan the government will continue to provide assistance to small holders to plant rubber. Planting of rubber will be done under two approaches, both of which emphasize on the group planting, namely mini-estates and block planting. Under the mini-estate approach, the minimum of each mini-estate is about 100 hectares. Sri Aman, Betong and Sarikei Divisions are earmarked for mini-estates. Block planting involving a minimum of 20 hectares per block will be implemented in other divisions. All small holders who are head of the households having title and NCR lands are eligible to apply. Application forms are available at the agriculture offices in the districts. Their applications are to be forwarded to the Department of Agriculture. The approval will be subject to land status, soil suitability and availability of fund. For the information of Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat for Tamin and Tarat, under the Ninth Malaysia Plan no new areas will be assisted by Department of Agriculture for small holder oil palm planting except for the Eighth Malaysia Plan continuation programme. However, the Malaysian Palm Oil Board (MPOB) through a unit called TUNAS (Tunjuk Ajar dan Nasihat Sawit) is providing free seedlings as well as technical and agronomic services to small holders who participate in the assistance of quality oil palm seedling scheme. Successful participants may also apply for soft loan from Bank Pertanian Malaysia for the purpose of buying fertilizer and other agri-chemicals. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Tamin. Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh: (Supplementary Question) Thank you, Tuan Speaker. I just come to understand that there are various types of rubber clone in Malaysia or in Sarawak. Now, can the Honourable Minister tell this august House what is the latest clone that can produce a lot of latex? Thank you very much. Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): Yes, it is a new clone being done by Rubber Research Institute of Malaysia and this is already implemented in some areas. The description is the trees are rather tall and produce a lot of latex so I can’t exactly remember the name of the clone. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Yang Berhormat Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Yes, Deputy Chief Minister. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): It is called LTC Series 2000. Tuan Speaker: That is the name. Ahli Yang Berhormat for Tarat. Y.B. Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: (Supplementary Question) The Honourable Minister mentioned that MPOB will provide the technical, the tunjuk ajar and nasihat for planting of oil palm and that a soft loan may be obtained from Bank Pertanian Malaysia. What are the criteria to apply for this loan? Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): I think anybody can apply from Bank Pertanian. I think the normal rate is as usual for Bank Pertanian and the seedlings are provided by the Ministry of Plantation Services and Commodity and the MPOB were asked to manage these seedlings that are provided for the small holder farmers. I understand that this year they will give about 10 million and the process of applications from various small holders are going on. Y.B. Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Tuan Speaker, what I am driving at is whether Bank Pertanian would give loan with security or without security? Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): Normally the loan, if I am not mistaken, used to have collateral. It is either in the form of land or in the form of somebody guarantee. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kemena. Y.B. Dr. Stephen Rundi Utom: Tuan Speaker, thank you very much. Regarding the question by Honourable Member for Tarat, on the same subject, I want to know how many planters have received these facilities, loan in Sarawak. And how many have been successful. Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): You mean the loan from Bank Pertanian, is it? Tuan Speaker: How many have given loan and how many are successful? Okay. Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): I think I am not sure, I don’t have the answer now. Tuan Speaker: Any more supplementary question? Honourable Member for Bukit Kota. Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman bin Ismail: Tuan Speaker, soalan tambahan. Bolehkah Yang Berhormat Menteri menyatakan berapakah peruntukan penanaman getah bagi Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan dan adakah ianya diagih-agihkan sama rata ke seluruh bahagian di Sarawak? Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): You mean for the … (Interruption) Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman bin Ismail: Penanaman getah. Peruntukan bagi Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan. Tuan Speaker: Tanaman getah. Menteri Muda Pertanian (Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): We are still finalizing on how much peruntukan because we also request from the Federal Ministry of Agriculture, so our PS is still waiting for how much to be given to Sarawak under the Ninth Malaysia Plan. Y.B. Encik Gabriel Adit anak Demong: Last one. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Ngemah. Y.B. Encik Gabriel Adit anak Demong: Given the great interest in all these rubber and oil palm, can we have the ministry arrange a dialogue with all those authorities so that we can get the real information not the, you know, hear say information, the real people to come, the Ministry, the Agriculture, Federal Ministry of Agriculture so that we know right to the very detail. Can we do that? Menteri Muda Pertanian Organisasi Petani dan Koperasi) (Y.B. Datuk Peter Nyarok anak Entrie): Yes. I will make sure that our Permanent Secretary in the Department of Agriculture with the Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat who are interested in this. LAKU WATER PIPE (55) Y.B. Encik Chiew Chiu Sing asked the Minister for Public Utilities: The measures that would be taken by LAKU to overcome the low pipe water pressure as experienced by the home owners of the residential estates like Taman Hilltop and Taman Pine Avenue at the Nyigu and Sibiew roads as well as other areas in Bintulu. Many cannot get water coming in from the LAKU water pipe line each day from 5pm-9pm. Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kidurong, kawasan yang dinyatakan iaitu Taman Hilltop dan Pine Avenue terletak di kawasan tanah tinggi. Apabila pelan retikulasi air dikemukakan untuk kelulusan, pihak pemaju telah dinasihati mengenai tekanan air yang rendah yang disebabkan oleh kawasan yang tinggi. Pihak pemaju kawasan tersebut juga dinasihati untuk membekalkan tangki simpanan air supaya pengguna dapat memperolehi air di waktu tekanan air yang terlalu rendah untuk menyalur air ke rumah mereka. Di dalam jangka masa pendek dan terdekat, pihak pemaju telah mengambil tindakan untuk membekal tangki penyimpanan air individu ke setiap rumah, manakala pihak berkuasa akan melaksanakan pelan-pelan untuk menambahbaik tekanan air. Walaubagaimanapun, pihak pemaju gagal membekal tangki penyimpanan air ke sebahagian pengguna dan menyebabkan pengguna-pengguna tersebut tidak ada bekalan air pada waktu puncak. Antara pelan-pelan untuk menambahbaik tekanan air di kawasan tersebut ialah: (1) Memasang paip-paip air utama 1,000 mm sepanjang 4.4 km daripada loji perawatan bekalan air ke takungan Kemena yang dicadangkan. Tender untuk pemasangan ini telah ditawarkan. Kerja-kerja ini dijangka akan bermula pada September 2006 dan akan siap pada Julai 2007. (2) Memasang paip-paip air utama 150 mm yang akan bercabang dari paip-paip utama 1,000 mm yang disebut tadi di sepanjang Jalan Sibiew ke kawasan yang terlibat. Kerja-kerja ini dijangka bermula pada 2007 dan dijadual siap dilaksanakan pada hujung tahun 2007. Dengan perlaksanaannya, pelan paip-paip air utama tersebut tadi, tekanan air di kawasan yang terlibat akan pulih. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Saribas. Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi bin Haji Junaidi: Saya juga ingin nak tahu. Adakah Yang Berhormat Menteri Muda dapat beritahu di Dewan ini berapakah kos menambahbaik tekanan-tekanan air yang rendah di Bintulu yang telah disebutkan tadi? Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, jumlah untuk pemasangan paip-paip di kawasan tersebut adalah RM3.7 juta. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Palawan. Y.B. Encik Vincent Goh Chung Siong: Honourable Minister, may I know what is the production of Bintulu Water Treatment Plant? Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Pengeluaran air daripada Water Treatment Plant di Bintulu ialah kapasitinya adalah 177 mld dan setakat ini Bintulu Water Treatment Plant telah pun mengeluarkan 92 mld dan consumption masyarakat di Bintulu setakat ini ialah 90 mld. Ini bermakna the production of water in Bintulu Treatment Plant is sufficient to cater for the population of Bintulu. Hanya masa peak hours saja. Terima kasih. PEMBANGUNAN TANAH NCR (56) Y.B. Encik Wong anak Judat bertanya kepada Menteri Kemajuan Tanah: Sama ada kerajaan bercadang untuk membangunkan tanah NCR di kawasan Meluan/Julau. Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden anak Hollis): Tuan Speaker, pada persidangan Dewan yang mulia yang kelima belas yang lalu, saya telah pun memberi jawapan kepada pertanyaan yang hampir sama daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Meluan. Adalah menjadi hasrat kerajaan untuk membangunkan Tanah Hak Adat Bumiputera di seluruh pelusuk Negeri Sarawak secara komersial berdasarkan kebolehlaksanaannya. Untuk Kawasan Meluan/Julau, kementerian saya telah pun menerima lima permohonan, dimana satu daripadanya adalah tidak lengkap memandangkan ia tidak disertakan dengan peta lokaliti dan senarai nama pemilik-pemilik tanah yang berminat dalam projek ini. Pemohon tersebut telahpun disarankan untuk mengemukakan maklumat yang diperlukan tetapi tidak memberi maklumbalas yang dikehendaki. Satu lagi permohonan tidak dapat dipertimbangkan oleh kerana ia terletak dalam lingkungan kawasan yang telah diwartakan sebagai Kawasan Tadahan Air Julau. Tiga permohonan yang lain merupakan permohonan yang bertindih dan dua daripada kawasan yang dimohonnya telahpun dipinda. Ketiga-tiga permohonan tersebut masih diproses oleh Kementerian Kemajuan Tanah … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tamin. Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Saya ingin bertanya kepada Yang Berhormat apakah perancangan masa depan kementerian bagi untuk mencapai sasaran supaya dapat mencepatkan target untuk pembangunan kelapa sawit di tanah NCR dan bagaimanakah hasil kelapa sawit ditanam dengan menggunakan NCR concept seperti di kawasan Kanowit dan di kawasan tempat-tempat yang lain … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tamin, soalan Yang Berhormat (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh: Adakah kementerian memuaskan? Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat, soalan ini dituju dan ditumpu kepada kawasan Meluan/Julau. Jadi soalan tambahan boleh berkaitan dengan kawasan tersebut. Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Sila, Yang Berhormat Menteri. Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden anak Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan tambahan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tamin, lima permohonan yang diterima oleh Kementerian Kemajuan Tanah setakat ini untuk kawasan tersebut ialah permohonan yang dikemukakan satu ialah, dua permohonan adalah diterima dan ketiga yang masih dalam proses. Jadi tentang program-program untuk seluruh Sarawak untuk NCR Land Development, Kementerian Kemajuan Tanah telah menjalankan banyak program seperti taklimat, kursus kepada NCR Land Development participant untuk mencapai target 400,000 hektar pada tahun 2010. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kemena. Y.B. Dr. Stephen Rundi anak Utom: Tuan Speaker, memandangkan soalan ini telahpun dikemukakan di Dewan ini beberapa tahun yang lalu, dan ini dah kali kedua barangkali dijawab, apakah tindakan susulan Kementerian, adakah pihak pemohon telah dimaklumkan, apakah status permohonan mereka atau sebaliknya? Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden anak Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan tambahan yang kedua, Tuan Speaker, permohonan yang diterima ialah 110 permohonan dan 41 permohonan telah dilulus dan yang masih dalam proses ialah banyak permohonan yang belum di… (Interruption) Y.B. Dr. Stephen Rundi anak Utom: (Supplementary Question) (Inaudible) Ahli Yang Berhormat for Meluan, the applications of that particular area, whether the applicants have been informed … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Soalan itu hanya tertumpu kepada kawasan tersebut maka soalan tambahan hanya ditimbulkan berkaitan dengan kawasan tersebut. Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden anak Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan Ahli Yang Berhormat tadi, lima permohonan yang diterima oleh kementerian saya setakat ini adalah merujuk kepada: (1) Permohonan yang dikemukakan oleh Encik Leo Jana Etin pada 4 Oktober 1994 bagi kawasan Julau/Kanowit/Entabai/Sibu/Pakan/Engkamop/Wak Road. Pemohon telah dinasihatkan supaya mengemukakan semula permohonan pada 13 Oktober 1994 besertakan peta lokaliti dan senarai nama pemilik-pemilik tanah yang berminat. Kementerian tidak mendapat maklumbalas daripada pemohon sehingga kini. (2) Jadi yang kedua, permohonan yang dikemukakan oleh Encik Ambrose Gramong anak Jilan, Dr. Ambrose Labang dan Puan Bernadine anak Liang pada 21 November 1997, 7 September 2000 dan 28 November 2003 yang rata-rata merangkumi kawasan Mador / Strass / Lasi / Sepitoh/ Balut/ Sangkung Bua/Merurun/Bilat-Matop. Kawasan tersebut didapati terletak dalam kawasan Tadahan Air Julau. (3) Permohonan yang dikemukakan oleh Penghulu Belu anak Latih pada 7 November 2005 dan 9 Jun 2006 yang bagi kawasan Merurun, Beluan, Julau dengan keluasan kadar 40,000 hektar; (4) Permohonan yang dikemukakan oleh Penghulu Lawrence Atuh pada 29 September 2005 dan 7 Jun 2006 bagi kawasan KJD Road dengan keluasan kasar 25,000 hektar; dan (5) Permohonan yang dikemukakan oleh Penghulu Junid pada 24 Januari 2006 dan Jun 2006 untuk kawasan Sungai Julau, Sungai Piloh, Sungai Jed dengan keluasan kasar 5,000 hektar. Kementerian Kemajuan Tanah adalah dalam proses menentusahkan status tanah NCR di kawasan-kawasan yang dipohon dengan pihak Jabatan Tanah dan Survei untuk menentukan sama ada ianya terletak dalam kawasan tadahan air, provisional list, hutan simpanan dan sebagainya. OIL AND GAS ROYALTIES (57) Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan asked the Chief Minister and Minister for Finance: On the issue of oil and gas royalties: (a) State the reasons why the State Government accepted 5% oil and gas royalties in the 1970s? (b) How often since the 1970’s has the State Government requested the Federal Government to review the said rate? (c) What was the production of gas and petrol in the state for each year from 1974 to 2005? OIL AND GAS REVENUE (76) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho asked the Chief Minister and Minister for Finance: Given that Sarawak is the major contributor of oil and gas revenue to the Federal Government, and given that Sarawak lags the Peninsular grossly in infrastructure and services, does the State Government consider any one or more of the following:- (a) Re-negotiate with the Federal Government to return control of oil and gas reserves to the states: (b) Re-negotiate with the Federal Government to increase the oil royalty payable to Sarawak; (c) Re-negotiate with the Federal Government to impose an excess petroleum and gas profit tax and Petronas; (d) Increase allocation for development and recurrent expenditures to Sarawak for infrastructure, low cost housing, etc? Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, I would like to answer question (57) for Ahli Yang Berhormat from Padungan and question (76) from Ahli Yang Berhormat for Batu Lintang together. Tuan Speaker: No, Batu Lintang is (57). Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Question (57) from Batu Lintang and Question (76) from Padungan together because they are similar questions. Tuan Speaker: Yes. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, in response to questions (57) and (76) on matters relating to oil and gas royalties, I would like to inform this august House that by virtue of Section (2) of the Petroleum Development Act, 1974, the entire ownership in and the exclusive rights, powers, liberty and privileges of exploring, exploiting, winning and obtaining petroleum whether lying on shore or off shore of Malaysia is vested in Petronas. Initially, Tuan Speaker, the State of Sarawak disputed the Act on the basis that it has the right over the continental shore beyond the 12-mile limit which was under the State. However, as a compromise, the previous government agreed to take ½ of the 10% royalty under the original Petroleum Act on the basis that it will get the royalty over land and the continental shore and, therefore, until and unless the said Act is repealed and Parliament re-vest the petroleum and gas resources in the State, the question of re-negotiation does not arise. Pursuing to Section (4) of the Petroleum Development Act 1974, the State Government, the Federal Government and Petronas, therefore, had entered into an agreement on 27 March 1975 in regard to the payment of royalty of the state. The present State Government of Sarawak is bound by the terms of that agreement which was signed between the then government of Sarawak and Petronas and the Federal Government. Notwithstanding, the agreement which renders for 5% royalty payment on oil and gas found on shore and off shore within the boundaries of Sarawak. The State Government had frequent discussions, both formal and informal with the Federal Government and Petronas on the possibility of increasing the royalty rates even during the time when Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim was Finance Minister. So far, the state’s proposal to consider the increase in royalty does not yield any favourable outcome. However, the state government will continue to engage the Federal Government and Petronas in such discussions. The State Barisan Nasional Government had always been working closely with the Federal Government for more allocation for development in the state especially for infrastructure development, rural and agriculture development, public utilities and education. Since the Fifth Malaysia Plan, total development allocation to the state have increased substantially. For example, under Fifth Malaysia Plan " total allocation for the state from the Federal Government is RM2.053 billion, Sixth Malaysia Plan " RM3.097 billion, Seventh Malaysia Plan " RM6.444 billion, Eighth Malaysia Plan " RM11.825 billion. Ninth Malaysia Plan which is the present plan " RM15.108 billion. In fact, Sarawak is one of the highest recipients of development allocation compared with other States in Malaysia. In the Eighth Malaysia Plan and Ninth Malaysia Plan, the State Government will continue to pursue for more allocation from the Federal government to further stimulate the economic development in the state and in order to narrow the development gap between our state and that of Peninsular Malaysia. In fact, the Prime Minister had given such assurance that the Federal Government will put more emphasis on this in the Ninth Malaysia Plan. As for the production of gas and petrol in the state, the available figures are for the year 2000 till 2004 and there are as follows: Petroleum and crude oil 2000 barrels per day 139,000 2001 barrels per day 126,000 2002 barrels per day 118,000 2003 barrels per day 132,000 2004 barrels per day 128,000 And, therefore, on average, production over the past five years, it is something like 128,600 barrels per day. Even though there is substantial increase in the crude oil prices, the production is maintained in line with the policy of sustainable extraction of our natural resources. Production of condensed of course is the natural gas liquid found together with non-associated gas, colourless and lighter than crude oil. Production of Condensed 2000 barrels per day 59,000 2001 barrels per day 58,000 2002 barrels per day 66,000 2003 barrels per day 81,000 2004 barrels per day 98,000 Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: (Supplementary question) Tuan Speaker, based on the principle of ownership of the continental shelf by a journey region, Sabah and Sarawak could claim the ownership before the incorporation of Malaysia in 1963. The status quo could be maintained in so far as Malaysian Constitution is silent on the matter. Therefore, the claim of ownership by the Federal Government maybe construed as an annexation. Do you agree with me? Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): For the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan, the Petroleum Development Act of 1974 had come into effect and, therefore, the present state government had to abide by this Petroleum Development Act 1974 which had been agreed upon between the state government, the federal government and Petronas. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) We appreciate the effort of the state government to negotiate for the increment of the royalty since 1976 after the passing of the Act. However, it seems that the internal negotiation for the increment of the royalty does not seem to have any effect. Does not seem to increase our royalty. So what I suggest is I will bring this matter in the Parliament and will the State Barisan Nasional Member of Parliament be supporting my call in the Parliament for an increase in the state " the 5% to 10%. You are the Cabinet here, you can direct the MPs of the Barisan Nasional to raise this matter up in the Parliament. Will the State Barisan Nasional support my call for the increment of the 5% royalty to 10% in Parliament? Thank you. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): For the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, your voice will not be heard because Members of Parliament from Barisan Nasional will bring the matters in the Parliament. Wait until you do so. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kedup. No, two supplementary questions had been asked. Alright, ok. Ahli Yang Berhormat for Batu Lintang. Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: (Supplementary question) May I please, Tuan Speaker, I have one supplementary question here, can the Minister give the dates as to when meetings, representations or negotiations made by the state government to the Federal Government since 1974 and who represented the State Government in these meetings or negotiations and what was the assurances, if any, given by the Federal Government? Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): As I have said, Tuan Speaker, for the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Batu Lintang, the State Government, the State Barisan Nasional Government had repeatedly negotiated with the Federal Government, both formal and informal and if you want the detail, if you want the date and so on, I think there are on so many occasions, as I have said and we will continue to bring the matter up for the consideration of the Federal Government and Petronas to increase the royalty. But as I have said, so far, no favourable outcome. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Tuan Speaker … Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Bukit Assek Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: (Supplementary question) Tuan Speaker, actually can the Honourable Minister highlight or enlighten us as the basis, the compromise, the basis for compromising to accept half of the 10% ? Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): The negotiation was between the then Chief Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia and therefore that was the agreement reached on March actually on 27th March 1975 and in fact the respective governments were not informed of this. IMPROVEMENT OF ROAD AT KEDUP (5 Y.B. Encik Frederick Bayoi anak Manggie asked the Deputy Chief Minister and Minister of Infrastructure Development and Communication:(a) When is the Terbat/Mapu road in my Constituency of N.19 " Kedup be improved, upgraded and tar-sealed? (b) What will be the total cost for the upgrading and tar-sealing of the road? Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): The correction will not change my answer anyway. I’ll carry on. Tuan Speaker, I wish to inform Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kedup that Terbat/Mapu Road is one of the spur road of Jalan Terbat/Pengkalan Amo, Tebedu. The construction of Jalan Terbat/Pengkalan Amo, Tebedu is carried out in phases. It commenced from Tebedu and has been completed up to Daha Mawang while another stretch from Daha Mawang to Kampung Pisut and to Kampung Teragu is currently under construction and progress is about 40% and is expected to be completed by March 2007. The next phase of the project is to continue the road from Teragu to Terbat which involves upgrading of the existing road for the sections from Teragu to Kejabu and to Mapu and from Teragu to Terbat of total length of 8.3 kilometer. Currently, the design and tender document of this stretch of road has been completed and compensation for land affected by the road is underway, is on going. Commencement of this phase of the project would only be carried out upon the completion of the stretch of road from Daha Mawang to Kampung Dagu and subject to availability of fund approved for the projects under the Ninth Malaysian Plan. The second part of the question, the estimated construction cost for this phase of project i.e. from Teragu to Terbat is RM18 million. IMPLEMENTATION OF RUMAH MESRA (60) Y.B. Encik Aidan Wing asked the Minister for Housing: Kindly enlighten on the progress of implementation of “Rumah Mesra” concept in Sarawak. LATARBELAKANG RUMAH MESRA RAKYAT (RMR) (82) Y.B. Encik Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah bertanya kepada Menteri Perumahan: Berapa buahkah Rumah Mesra Rakyat (RMR) telah dibina di Sarawak setakat ini? Kenapakah perlaksanaan projek ini di Sarawak jauh berkurangan dengan perlaksanaan di negeri-negeri lain di Malaysia? Apakah criteria pemohon-pemohon untuk dapat memiliki Rumah Mesra Rakyat ini? Menteri Perumahan (Y.B. Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari Bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Tuan Speaker, izinkan saya menjawab soalan 60 dan soalan 82 daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat Asajaya serentak. Tuan Speaker: Soalan 60 dan 82. Okay. Menteri Perumahan (Y.B. Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari Bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Tuan Speaker, sebagai latarbekalang. Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat merupakan program baru yang diperkenalkan oleh Kementerian Perumahan Sarawak dalam menyediakan rumah yang lebih selesa dan kondusif kepada golongan berpendapatan rendah di negeri Sarawak. Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat telah diperkenalkan di Negeri Sarawak pada pertengahan tahun 2005 dan diadaptasi daripada Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat yang telah dilaksanakan di Semenanjung Malaysia. Pendekatan Perlaksanaan Modus Operandi Program RMR bagi Negeri Sarawak boleh dibahagikan kepada dua iaitu: (i) Program RMR untuk Skim Individu; dan (ii) Program RMR untuk Skim Pembesaran Kampung Program RMR untuk Skim Individu Di bawah Program RMR Skim Individu, permohonan boleh dibuat oleh pemohon-pemohon yang mempunyai tanah individu bergeran di mana-mana bahagian di Negeri Sarawak. Geran tanah akan dijadikan sekuriti, gadaian ataupun kaveat pinjaman Rumah Mesra Rakyat. Program RMR untuk Skim Pembesaran Kampung Di bawah Program RMR bagi Skim Pembesaran Kampung, HDC akan membina Rumah Mesra Rakyat di kawasan yang telah dikenalpasti untuk program Skim Pembesaran Kampung oleh Jabatan Tanah dan Survei STATUS PELAKSANAAN Program Rumah Rakyat (RMR) Skim Individu Setakat ini HDC telah menerima 474 permohonan program RMR Skim Individu di seluruh Sarawak. Daripada 299 permohonan telah dimaju ke Ibu Pejabat SPNB iaitu Syarikat Perumahan Negara Berhad bagi tujuan kelulusan manakala 175 permohonan telah ditolak kerana tidak menepati kriteria-kriteria yang telah ditetapkan. Daripada 299 permohonan yang telah dimajukan ke Ibu Pejabat SPNB bagi tujuan kelulusan, 32 permohonan telah diluluskan dengan 10 permohonan telah dikeluarkan surat inden kelulusan dan kerja-kerja pembinaan sedang dilaksanakan. Untuk yang lain ketika ini kita masih lagi menunggu kelulusan daripada SPNB. Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat (RMR) Skim Pembesaran Kampung Bagi program RMR Skim Pembesaran Kampung, HDC dijangka akan membina 195 unit Rumah Mesra Rakyat pada tahun 2006. Pecahan unit bagi Program RMR Skim Pembesaran Kampung yang dilaksanakan HDC pada tahun 2006 adalah seperti berikut: Bil. Nama Projek Jumlah Unit 1. Skim Pembesaran Kampung Bako Fasa II, Kuching 165 2. Skim Pembesaran Kampung Patanak, Mukah 30 Jumlah 195 Empat unit contoh telah dibina masing-masing iaitu dua di Skim Pembesaran Kampung Bako Fasa 11, Kuching dan Skim Pembesaran Kampung Petanak, Mukah. Dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan, kita telah mencadangkan kawasan Semop dan Bekenu dalam kawasan RGC yang akan dibangunkan. Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat (RMR) Skim Individu Tuan Speaker, kenapa perlaksanaan projek di Sarawak jauh berkurangan berbanding perlaksanaan di negeri-negeri lain di Malaysia. Untuk menjawabnya, perlu dimaklumkan bahawa Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat sebelum ini hanya dilaksanakan di Semenanjung Malaysia dan merupakan program yang baru bertapak di Negeri Sarawak. Jika dilihat kepada permohonan yang diterima oleh HDC bagi Program RMR Skim Individu, setakat ini 462 permohonan telah diproses dengan 287 permohonan memenuhi kriteria dan 32 permohonan telah dikeluarkan inden kelulusan dan kerja-kerja permbinaan sedang dilaksanakan. Masalah kelewatan kelulusan adalah disebabkan oleh beberapa perkara iaitu: (1) Kelulusan akhir permohonan yang dibuat oleh pihak SPNB di peringkat Ibu Pejabat, Kuala Lumpur; (2) Kegagalan pihak pemohon untuk mengemukakan geran tanah pada borang permohonan; (3) Tapak tanah yang dicadangkan untuk membina Rumah Mesra Rakyat berstatus Temporary Occupation Licence (TOL) dan tanah NCR yang tidak mempunyai geran; dan (4) Pemohon yang melampaui kelayakan seperti pendapatan yang melebihi RM1,000.00 sebulan. Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat (RMR) Skim Pembesaran Kampung Di bawah Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat di Skim Pembesaran Kampung Bako Fasa II, Kuching dan Skim Pembesaran Kampung Petanak, Mukah, HDC dan Jabatan Tanah dan Survei adalah di peringkat akhir perbincangan berhubung pemberian milikan tanah sama ada kepada allottee seperti yang diamalkan oleh pihak Jabatan Tanah dan Survei di Skim Penempatan Semula dengan bayaran premium dibuat oleh pihak allottee ataupun milikan beri kepada HDC dengan bayaran premium dibuat oleh HDC dan allottee membayar ansuran kepada HDC secara bulanan. Milikan tanah akan dipindakan kepada allottee selepas bayaran tanah dan rumah dilangsaikan oleh pihak allottee. KRITERIA-KRITERIA PERMOHONAN RUMAH MESRA RAKYAT (PMR) Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat (PMR) Skim Individu Pemohon hendaklah: (1) Warganegara Malaysia; (2) Berumur di antara 18 tahun sehingga 65 tahun. Pemohon yang berumur di antara 45 tahun hingga 65 tahun memerlukan pemohon kedua yang berumur di antara 18 tahun hingga 30 tahun; (3) Pendapatan kasar isi rumah tidak melebihi RM1,000.00 sebulan; (4) Berkahwin atau ibu/bapa tunggal yang mempunyai tanggungan. Istilah tanggungan termasuk anak, ibu, bapa, mertua, ipar atau saudara-mara yang terdekat yang tinggal bersama pemohon; (5). Tidak mempunyai rumah sendiri ataupun mempunyai rumah yang usang/tidak sempurna; (6) Mempunyai tanah yang sesuai dan bergeran serta tiada cagaran di atasnya. Sebagai sekuriti geran asal akan dicagar ataupun di kaveat kepada HDC; (7) Tanah tersebut perlulah milik sendiri ataupun saudara mara yang terdekat; ( Permohonan hendaklah dibuat melalui wakil rakyat kawasan. Program Rumah Mesra Rakyat (PMR) Skim Pembesaran Kampung Untuk Rumah Mesra Rakyat Pembesaran Kampung: (1) Warganegara Malaysia; (2) Berumur di antara 18 tahun sehingga 65 tahun. Dan pemohon yang berumur di antara 45 tahun hingga 65 tahun memerlukan pemohon kedua yang berumur di antara 18 tahun hingga 30 tahun; (3) Pendapatan kasar isi rumah tidak melebihi RM1,000.00 sebulan; (4) Berkahwin atau ibu/bapa tunggal yang mempunyai tanggungan; (5) Permohonan mestilah berdaftar dengan Jabatan Tanah dan Survei; Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Saribas. Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi bin Haji Junaidi: (Soalan tambahan) Tuan Speaker, Terima kasih. Memandangkan di kebanyakan kampung-kampung tradisional di luar bandar tidak mempunyai geran tanah mereka juga ingin benar untuk mendapat rumah mesra ini. Apakah diberi kelonggaran sedikit khusus untuk kita di Negeri Sarawak ini? Menteri Perumahan (Y.B. Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Ya, sudah menjadi pendekatan Kerajaan kalau boleh si pemohon itu mempunyai geran tanah dan kita ada dua dasar. Satunya pembesaran kampung di mana pihak Jabatan Tanah dan Survei telah mengenal pasti satu kawasan untuk penempatan semula ataupun pembesaran kampung dan mereka akan diberi tanah yang selalu kita beri TOL dan apa yang kita hendak laksanakan ialah satu mekanisma di mana kita akan membayar premium bagi pihak yang mempunyai tanah tersebut dan mereka akan membayar secara ansuran. Kepada kampung tradisional kita ada resettlement exercise. Apabila mereka ada mempunyai geran tanah, kita dapat laksanakan dengan sebaik mungkin. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Asajaya Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: (Soalan Tambahan) Terima kasih Tuan Speaker. Satu daripada pra-syarat untuk memohon Rumah Mesra Rakyat adalah permohonannya perlu dibuat melalui wakil rakyat. Saya pun kurang pasti sama ada wakil rakyat di sini adalah Ahli Parlimen ataupun Ahli Dewan Undangan Negeri. Tetapi saya rasa inilah saya percaya yang telah menyebabkan ramai pemohon-pemohon datang ke pejabat saya meminta borang permohonan. Saya rasa bagaimana hendak meringankan masalah ini dan saya mencadangkan agar permohonan ini dapat dibuat ataupun borangnya boleh diambil daripada kementerian ataupun pejabat HDC dan disokong oleh wakil rakyat dan jangan dibuat pra-syaratnya permohonan dibuat melalui wakil rakyat kerana wakil rakyat tidak mempunyai borang-borang Rumah Mesra Rakyat di pejabat kami kecuali kami dibekalkan oleh kementerian. Terima kasih. Menteri Perumahan (Y.B Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Untuk menjawab Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Asajaya, memang sudah menjadi prosedur kita bahawa borang akan dikeluarkan oleh Kementerian melalui HDC ataupun SPNB dan kita ada satu Jawatankuasa yang mengkordinasikannya. Hanya kita hendakkan satu sokongan daripada wakil rakyat di kawasan tersebut yang mengesahkan bahawa mereka tidak mempunyai tanah ataupun mempunyai tanah di kawasan yang telah dipohonkan. Terima kasih. FUEL AND GAS PRICE (61) Y.B Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui asked the Deputy Chief Minister and Minister for Infrastructure Development and Communications: 2 State whether the State Government has done any economic and social; impact assessment study on the effects of fuel and gas price hike of February, 2006? 3 State the steps taken by the State Government to alleviate the problems of the population in urban, suburban and rural areas as a result of the fuel and gas price hike? 4 Whether the allocation of RM220 million federal funds saved from the fuel subsidy is adequate to the State of Sarawak? Why? Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, in fact the correct description, Tuan Speaker, is actually reduced fuel and gas subsidy by the government instead and should not be negatively portrayed as fuel and gas price hike of February, 2006 as worded by Ahli Yang Berhormat for Pending as appeared in part (a) of question number 61 of this Order Paper because the enactment of subsidy is still there. It is just reduced fuel and gas subsidy. It is not to be negatively portrayed as I said as a price hike of gas and fuel technically. I wish to give explanation here. I wish to inform Ahli Yang Berhormat for Pending that the State Government has not formally commissioned any consultant to conduct a study to assess the economic and social impact of the effect of fuel and gas hike of February 2006. I still, as a gentleman, I would like to use your phrase also. Because for reason at the moment the price of crude oil has not stabilized. It shoots up from USD63 per barrel in February 2006 to today hovering around about USD78 per barrel. Anyway, instead, I have, since February 2006, that is immediately as we received news of the reduced price subsidy for gas and fuel from the Federal Government, I have, since February 2006, traveled throughout Sarawak, discussed with cabinet colleagues and representatives of the affected areas throughout Sarawak especially so bringing my Permanent Secretary of Ministry of Infrastructure and Communications to discuss in detail with the Residents especially in the affected parts " Limbang, Miri, Bintulu, Sibu, Sarikei, Mukah and all the like, to find out from the administration because the Residents are in charge of each Division, they know best through their District offices what are the effects on the population in their respective Division and instructed them to identify where are the priority crucial areas which need prior attention. These we have done immediately and periodically I reported over to the Cabinet and discussions at the Cabinet. As a result of that, I have written several letters over to the Federal Ministers, copied over to the Prime Minister and the Minister in the Economic Planning Unit and also Minister of Transport who is the co-ordinating Ministry regarding this matter at federal level and we have various feedbacks and very detailed reports from the Residents and still coming because as you can appreciate those really remote areas are inaccessible and at times even aeroplane cannot fly because of the inclement weather. It is very hard to get reports from the rural areas. You can appreciate the problem but the State Government and through my Ministry, we have in the letters that I have written, pointed out to the Federal Government that in Sarawak, there are problem like transportation of fuel to remote areas which are not accessible by road; and Question part (b), recommendation to improve the timber roads used or disused timber roads in the rural areas in order to provide accessibility to transport fuel and essential commodities, not only fuel but essential commodities to supply the schools, clinics and government areas as well as the rural population because these are equally as vital as fuel and gas to the rural population. Question part (c), to help finance public transport including buses, lorries, outboard operators, fishermen, including the transportation of essential commodities. Tuan Speaker, I wish to assure Ahli Yang Berhormat for Pending that the State Government is fully aware of the problem of the fuel hike has imposed on the people in urban as well as in the rural areas, suburban and rural areas. The fuel hike is a global problem which affects everybody, nobody is being spared. The State Government observes with great concern our rising cost precious as it reduces profitability and thus the cost of living in Sarawak. Even current development and the global oil market which is shortage of refined oil and its high demand, we in Sarawak must be fully prepared to further increase, be prepared for further increase in fuel prices in the coming years because we are not isolated from all the globalized effects. Whether we like it or not, it will seem therefore, that the only rationale we out of this dilemma for our businesses and our people is to increase the overall efficiency of our state economy in order to keep down the pace of price increase. As the price of fuel increases, we should try to safe on the use of fuel by using more efficient machinery and by making better use of our resources to generate the same volume of output. We should also strive to add more value to our output with the use of more creative and innovative ideas and methods to produce more refined products. We should be more integrated in our operation and reduce wastage. When the fuel hike was made earlier this year, the global price of fuel was USD63 per barrel. Today, the global oil price is hovering between USD77-USD78 per barrel. I forgot today, what is the price but anyway it doesn’t change so much, which is a further increase of more than 22%. We can take really that the Federal Government has told the people that there will be no further increases, at least for the rest of this year. For the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat in this august House, the Federal Government as effective from June 2006, still provide subsidies at retailing outlets to the consumers as follows. That is why I call it reduced in the subsidies because subsidies are still here. 2 RM12.72 of subsidy for 14kg cylinder LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) 3 RM0.338 per litre for petrol RON 97. This is the type of fuel. 4 RM0.307 per litre for petrol RON 92 5 RM0.609 per litre for diesel 6 RM0.792 per litre for diesel to commercial vehicles in the transport industry 7 RM1.24 per litre for diesel to fishermen; and 8 RM0.96 per litre for diesel to passenger boats In seeking to alleviate the problem of the people, the State Government has made several proposals to the Federal Government for Sarawak, especially for urban as well for rural population. The State Government suggested to the Federal Government that about 10% of the anticipated savings estimated about RM4.4 billion while the crude oil price was only RM63 per barrel then, should be allocated for building good public transport system in urban centers and in the rural areas of Sarawak. For the rural areas, the State Government has also proposed to the Federal Government that fuel price in the rural areas should be about equal within those in the urban areas by using this requested fund to undertake the necessary transportation. However, this proposal has not been accepted because of the further unexpected price of the crude oil shot up to reach today USD78 per barrel now. That is the original mathematical calculation on the original saving based on crude oil price of USD63 per barrel in February 2006 has almost wiped out the anticipated savings because of this increase of USD63 per barrel to the unexpected USD77-USD78 per barrel today. And I don’t think anybody can predict that it will come down and nobody can predict what ceiling will it reach because it is still climbing. Anyway, please do not blame us in the government for that. And the State Government will continue to lobby for the Federal Government for assistance to our people concerning the fuel price. Until now Sarawak has received only RM10 million from the Federal Government. This will be used to address priority agenda to transport fuel in an essential commodities to the remote in assessable areas of Bario, Ba’ Kelalan and Long Lelang, I said priority which has no road access. Very unreliable road access and we feel this is the best way can do, we will not stop asking from Federal Government in whatever way that we can get assistance from Federal Government because we really care for our people. I think with this explanation, your question, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Pending, (a), (b) and (c) have been fully answered. In fact, what was put in question (c), RM220 Million in fact the State Government has proposed higher than that, RM400 million actually. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker. Why are we continuing to fool ourselves that we are talking about subsidies when Sarawak is an oil producing State and somebody is walking all the way laughing to the bank with 70 Billion Dollars in profit this year alone, Petronas I mean. Why, why can’t the State Government do something about this? Bribery of our resources. We are talking about oil producing state and we are crying out. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, the answer was given by my colleague, the Honourable Finance Minister II just now regarding the State position on this. And we are in the Federation. There are rules to democracy and if Ahli Yang Berhormat is not satisfied with it, well you can make noise … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Withdraw from the Federation? Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri. (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Sorry? Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Withdraw from the Federation? … (Boos and Applause) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Is that your proposal? Is that your proposal?… (Interruption) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Tuan Speaker, can I … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Is that Keadilan proposal? … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: If Sarawak cannot check its just right, then it should withdraw. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, please note that … (Interruption) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: We are not supposed to use seditious words down here. Tuan Speaker: Yes Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Is the … Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan, and we said that we are within the Federation and within the Federation, there are certain rules and covenants that we must keep. I leave my question with regards to the supplementary just now is beyond me, what I ask, he is entitled for his opinion. Let him be entitled to his opinion. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Minister for Finance to reply. Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Because the Deputy Minister, said, that the answer was partially, the question was partially answered for me. We are not here to defend Petronas. I think we cannot deny that, Petronas is making huge profit. We also cannot deny that Petronas is also contributing to the Federal and State coffers. Petronas does business in about 40 countries in the world. Revolving close to 40 percent of their revenue from worldwide operations not from Sarawak alone. (Applause) Can I also bring the attention to Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan, Petronas also pay corporate and income tax to the government. It also pays annual dividends and duties for the crude oil for export. On top of that, Petronas also pay royalties to both the State and Federal Governments. The company’s contribution to the national coffers amounted to RM25.3 billion for the period 2003 and 2004 and close to RM30 billion for the period of 2004 " 2005. And of course, as you know the government then in turn will use some of this revenue to subsidise petrol and diesel prices and this directly benefits consumers and the rest, of course, is used to fund government expenses, particularly development projects. Thank you. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Are we supposed to be very happy … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: I will allow only one more Supplementary question. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, the floor is still mine. Tuan Speaker:: (Laughter) Yes. In the heat of the exchanges, yes, it is yours. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Now, will all Honourable Members cool down. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar ( Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Just now we hear in this House, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Pending, his views about the Federation… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: No, no, no it is Padungan. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Padungan, sorry, sorry, sorry… (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I know I am handsome, but I am not petite. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar ( Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Sorry, sorry, sorry. Tuan Speaker: (Laughter) It is Padungan. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Human beings can have a slip of the tongue, like Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, when he swears in here, he swears that he is a Member of Parliament … (Laughter). Sorry, I apologise to Ahli Yang Berhormat for Pending, now to Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Now, let me explain. For so many years Padungan has been represented by the fairer sex… (Laughter) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Thank you. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Just five years. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): I would like Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan to tell this House, because he makes a remark just now about withdrawing from the Federation. Is this Keadilan stand? Please, reinform the House, please. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I will be very happy Tuan Speaker. This is my personal stand and I believe this is a stand of every Sarawakian who believes that their money is being taken by the government … (Interruption). Barisan Nasional Backbenchers: No, no, no. (collectively) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: That was my answer. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: He asked for my answer and I am giving it very, very coolly. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Point of order, Point of order. It is not true, Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): I think you are … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Member for Padungan, you speak for yourself and for your party. Don’t speak for the others… (Laughter). Just speak for yourself and for your party. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, I speak for the people of Sarawak. Barisan Nasional Backbenchers: No, no … (Collectively), we are also elected by the people of Sarawak …..… Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Point of order, point of order Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Because all the other Y.Bs, 61 Y.Bs have not dared to stand up for the people of Sarawak. Barisan Nasional Backbenchers: No, no … it is not true. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: When they are receiving 70 billion? Tuan Speaker: Ok. Sit down. It is creating disorder. It has created disorder. You have made your point. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Sorry. Tuan Speaker: Is this the second Supplementary? Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Ya. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Bukit Assek, you stood just now? You forfeit to Kota Sentosa? Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yes. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I appreciate what the Minister said that we have to start saving. We have to start saving our fuel, in light of the increasing crude oil prices internationally. So, but I believe we should lead by example and being political leaders we also should lead by example. By, we driving … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: No argument, no argument. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, I know. Tuan Speaker: You put forward your question. Y.B. Encik Chong Ching Jen: I am putting a suggestion. Whether the Ministry, the Minister will agree that we should start driving less, smaller c.c. car, like maybe Kancil or.. rather than … (Interruption) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Point of order, Point of Order, Tuan Speaker … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Rather than, rather than… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Point of Order, Ya. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, the floor is still mine… (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No. It is mine now, it is mine now. I am asking the question… (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): The floor is still mine… (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Your question? Put forward your question. Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes. My question is whether the Minister will agree with me to lead by example by driving, for Ministers to drive smaller c.c car, like Kancil or Perodua or even Proton rather than Mercedes. Tuan Speaker: Alright, okay. Honourable Deputy Chief Minister. That is the question. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Tuan Speaker, I know, Ahli for Kota Sentosa want to score political mileage…(Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Sangkaan jahat Tuan Speaker: Let the Minister answer. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Please, please. Let me explain. Let me explain. State Sarawak Government explore all ways including, even though I have not mentioned just now, the possibility of setting up bio-diesel plant from environmentally source, from environmentally and very safe product from oil palm which is produced from native customer right joint venture plantations which give good return for the land owners especially our rural people for which Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan assumes that he is the Chief Minister of Sarawak in his remark just now because he speaks for the people of Sarawak. Please you are only elected in Padungan, you know. There are 71 seats here … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Just say yes or no only. Yes or no only…(Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Because you ask me. Who do I speak for? And I speak for … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Order, order, order, order. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): So, alright, I have nothing to stop if Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa can walk, whether frontward for backward, from his house over here if he does not want to keep up with tempo of development. There is certain things, I believe he flies in the aeroplane instead of using ‘kayuh’ from Kuching over to Kuala Lumpur… (Laughter and Applause). Are we to be obsolete of the modernity and also there are dignities also in the government, kah? Because of the prosperity, because of the standard of living and also, kah? These are the tempo of the day and we cannot be oblivious to this change. I come from very rural area, you must remember, which none of you have been to, you know… (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I have been to many, many rural areas … (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): I challenge! Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: I was with ‘rumah panjai’. Enti ba Layar nemu aku, ba Betong nemu aku. Ari Sri Aman nemu aku. Aku sekolah ba Sri Aman. Aku nemu jako Iban … (Interruption). Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Batu Lintang, Member for Batu Lintang, sit down, sit down. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): The floor is mine … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Translation, translation. Tuan Speaker: Let the Minister answer the supplementary question. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I have been to “rumah panjai” and I slept with them, and I have eaten with them. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Padungan, sit down. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar ( Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Ya, Okay. So, these are, I cannot be expected to use my ‘cawat’ in the town, for which, none even long house, you want to ridicule long house and say ‘cawat’ … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I am just saying this with full of respect because it is still part of our traditional uniform. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): It is not. You are outdated! … (Interruption) Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Sorry. Traditional attire. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Padungan. Sit down. Let the Minister answer. No interruption. It is a reply. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): Alright. So, Tuan Speaker, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Padungan has not answered my question. He stand … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Your question has been answered. The alternative source of bio-fuel. That answered it. It is addressing to Padungan. Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar ( Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): None answered my question. What is your stand, Keadilan stand? Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: You are asking me question. I will be very happy to answer if you allow me to have the floor… (Interruption) Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan dan Menteri Pembangunan Luar Bandar (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri (Dr) Alfred Jabu anak Numpang): On the Federation. You said just now, you said that you want to withdraw from Malaysia. Please, unless you are a man of your word, either you withdraw your remark, you got the choice, you state it to the Speaker. Thank you. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Point of Order, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker: Okay. Question time is up. Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Tuan Speaker, can I make a clarification of a serious remark that has been given by the Honourable Member for Padungan? Under the Standing Order, no interferences or suggestion of to withdraw out of the Federation should be allowed to be said out and it is stated inside the Standing Order. These kinds of words are treasonable word. (Applause). Under Order 30 … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Under Standing Order 32 (10), it shall be out of order to use: (a) Treasonable words; (b) Seditious words; (c) Words which are likely to promote feelings of ill-will or hostility between different communities in the State, or infringe the Constitution of the State of Sarawak or the Sedition Act, 1948. Member for Padungan, I draw your attention to this. Do you still stand by, by what you said that you would like to withdraw from the Federation of Malaysia. Yes or no? Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, everybody is assuming that I am talking about the Federation of Malaysia, aren’t you. I did not say that. (Boos). I said withdraw from the Federation. Tuan Speaker: Which other Federation do you mean? Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I am an advisor of the Federation of the Malaysian Electrical Dealers Association. (Boos). Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: There are so many federations. Don’t twist your words. Tuan Speaker: Sarawak is not a member of the … (Interruption). Menteri Perumahan (Y.B. Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari Bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Tuan Speaker, this is a very serious matter about the withdrawal. I think I have to make your stand here. Tuan Speaker: Alright, the remarks made by the Honourable Member for Padungan was clear, it was very clear, I leave it to the Honourable Minister whether to proceed with the other provisions of the Standing Order because it is clear under Standing Order 32 (10), what I read out just now, it shall be out of order to use " (a) Treasonable words; (b) Seditious words; (c) Words which are likely to promote feelings of ill-will or hostility between different communities in the State, or infringe the Constitution of the State of Sarawak or the Sedition Act, 1948. Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, if my usage of the word “Federation” causes offence, I withdraw it. (Applause) Tuan Speaker: You cannot just withdraw the word “Federation”. You have to withdraw the words, you use the words “withdraw from the Federation”. Do you withdraw those words “withdraw from the Federation.” Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I withdraw those words “withdraw from the Federation”. Tuan Speaker: Alright. (Applause) Question time is up and supplementary questions are up. USUL PENGHARGAAN ATAS UCAPAN T.Y.T. YANG DI-PERTUA NEGERI [Perbahasan Bermula] Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahi Yang Berhormat, the motion is this Dewan resolved to express its appreciation to Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri for his gracious address to this august House on the 24th day of July, 2006. Ahli bagi Tasik Biru, Yang Berhormat Encik Peter Nansian Nguse will move the motion. Y.B. Encik Peter Nansian Nguse: Tuan Speaker, thank you for giving this honour to move the motion of appreciation to the Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri’s address made in this august House on the 24th July, 2006 on the occasion of the opening of the Sixteenth Dewan Undangan Negeri session. Terlebih dahulu, saya dengan hormatnya merakamkan setinggi-tinggi penghargaan terima kasih kepada Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri Sarawak di atas nasihat yang penuh memerangsangkan dan menjadi panduan hidup yang sangat berguna sepertimana yang terkandung dalam ucapan Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri. As we all know, Tuan Speaker, we are indeed most fortunate to have such a caring, loving and humble Head of State who travels the length and breadth of the state and knows his people and our country very well. In fact, he is a symbol of stability, harmony, unity, peace and progress for our beloved state. Tuan Speaker, saya mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Tuan Yang Terutama yang telah mengingatkan Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat sekalian bahawa tanggungjawab rakyat diamanahkan oleh rakyat amat besar maknanya. Sebagai Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, kita memainkan peranan penting sebagai agen perubahan dan menyampai pembangunan kepada rakyat. Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat harus memastikan kerjasama antara kaum terus dikekalkan dengan keharmonian rakyat yang berbilang kaum dan budaya di Sarawak. Tuan Speaker, kesejahteraan sebuah negeri bukan sahaja bergantung kepada keharmonian dan perpaduan rakyatnya. Isu-isu keselamatan juga amat penting dalam memastikan kestabilan sosial dan politik. Sepertimana Kawasan N.2"Tasik Biru berdekatan dengan sempadan Indonesia and mempunyai pintu masuk rasmi dan terdapat banyak jalan tikus yang boleh menyebabkan ancaman keselamatan negeri. State Elections 2006 Tuan Speaker, it is most deserving and fitting that our beloved Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri congratulated our beloved Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri to have led the Barisan Nasional to a sounding victory in the last State General Elections. Undeniably, the victory is a true testimony of the Barisan Nasional excellent past track record that has brought about progress, stability, security, harmony, and peace to our country and to ensure hope for our bright future for our future generations. However, let us never forget that all these can never happen without the exemplary leaders and for us, we must count ourselves lucky to have lived and served during the tenure of this leadership over the last 25 years. Because such excellent leaders come far in between and this exemplary leader is none other than our beloved Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri. He is the chief architect, our chief planner, innovator and master financial management for our beloved state. As a result of his brilliance, we enjoyed escalated and unprecedented economic growth, financial stability and resilience for the state over the last 25 years, his leadership as a Ketua Menteri. Indeed, the unprecedented development has created and provided us with the first wave of modern development for the state. Thus, we need and I stress, we need and want and least necessary for him to continue to lead us to set the pace to achieve the second wave of another unprecedented growth, development and prosperity for Sarawak for the good of the rakyat and our beloved country. Going back to the sweet victory by Barisan Nasional in the last State General Elections, we must also thank the rakyat or voters for having made the right choice, I said, the right choice and not taking chances to determine the destiny. Giving Barisan Nasional a majority of 87% is in fact most gratifying and by no means an easy feat to achieve. Thus, ours was not a victory of politicians but of the people. The people took the trust and gave it to us. They must have been proud of having elected us as we are to serve them. We won because we are Barisan Nasional, because we have the courage to change ourselves and discipline to take hard decisions while remained united and the size of our victory put a special responsibility on us to be a government of high performance and hard choices, not popular for one time but remembered for all time. Not just a better government but one of the great, progressive reforming government of our history. So let us be known that losing a few seats shall not dampen our spirit but on the contrary, strengthen our resolve even more. Tuan Speaker, a change of political leadership in the early 1980s brought about renewed sense of urgency and introduction of new development approaches and strategies. A new approach was required if Sarawak was to progress in tandem with the rest of the nation and the necessary foundation for progress has to be put in place. Since then, the government has embarked on a new development paradigm which places total development covering all sectors, economic, social-cultural, political, human, environmental apart from the physical development. The new development philosophy is encapsulated under the concept of politics of development in which amongst others, politic is subservient to development by Amat Yang Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri. In further recognition of the forces of globalization, the progressiveness of IT, trade globalization in a fast modulus world are now realities that we have to contend with in our development planning process. It has been timely too that Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri mentioned that in view of the new realities that we faced, we have to re-look at our planning strategies. In his words, change is inevitable. With change comes opportunities in terms employment and income for the people. The state recognizes that our work force is getting mobile and their newly acquired work scale will further enhance their mobility. In the process, we will not anticipate that this interaction will bring about greater equality among the stakeholders as a result of the government development efforts. The acronym, COME encapsulates the new development challenges of our people. Tuan Speaker, since the early 1980s, our state has witnessed tremendous development which come about as a result of the politics of development as espoused by our beloved Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri Sarawak unlike the period prior to the ascendancy of the present Ketua Menteri where threats from underground communist movements were real and coupled with political in-fighting among the various political parties. The hierarchy principle of politics of development has allowed us to work towards development and improving the welfare of our people in a united and focus manner by not allowing our political and social-cultural differences get into the way of development, Sarawak under the abled leadership of our Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri has managed to focus more on development projects and progress which brought benefit to the people of Sarawak, particularly those in the rural areas. We also recognize that the State Government has provided funds for development of basic infrastructures such as roads and bridges, water and electricity supply to the various Malaysian Plans including the Ninth Malaysia Plan covering the period 2006-2010. To ensure that the people are able to capitalize on the facilities and opportunities that are found in the local economy and elsewhere, the people themselves must take positive steps to improve their own individual capabilities beyond what the government can do for them. That is why the State Government has put greater emphasis on education and training and on the development of our vast human capital. Tuan Speaker, rapid progress has also been made in the eradication of poverty in the state. The incident of poverty as an indicator of poverty has been reduced sharply from 21% in 1990 to as low as 5.8% in the year 2002. Even as a result of a change in definition where the poverty line income or PLI has been revised to the level of RM765 from RM600, the incident of poverty being revised to 7.5% for the year 2004 still showed a commendable achievement for the state. We recognize the rise in PLI being the result of higher cost of living in the nation. Nonetheless, I am sure the state will continue to help the lower section of our society with programmes to reduce the incident poverty particularly those in the rural areas as well among the urban poor. New Sectors Tuan Speaker, as a dynamic concept the politics of development takes cognition of the implication of the new economy by taking into account the component of the new reality. Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri has reiterated the need to develop our capacity to identify, pursue and transform opportunities into real business realities. To achieve this target, additional investment will be made in enhancing the existing knowledge and the skills of our workforce and the infrastructure for knowledge and innovation. As we prepare for the future, we foresee among the key areas that the State will accord importance include the following sectors which I hope be given adequate fund for the development in the Ninth Malaysia Plan. Agriculture and Food Industries Modernisation and commercialization of the agriculture sector need to be intensified in food processing activities, deep sea fishing and aquaculture development, plantation development especially for oil palm, sago and forestry and the introduction of new crops such as herbs and spices, horticulture and seed production. I would urge the Ministry of Modernisation and Commercialisation of Agriculture encourage active private sector participation through joint-ventures. Manufacturing In manufacturing and with the emphasis being given to hi-tech, bio-tech as well as the capital intensive industries, I would urge the relevant ministries, departments and agencies to aggressively attract foreign direct investment or FDIs, or the private finance initiatives or the PFIs, in addition to existing resource based processing such as natural gas, wood-based, petro-chemical industries, promotion of high end electronics such as the wafer fabrication and final wood-based products especially pulp and paper should be intensified. SMIs and SMEs are developed to complement our efforts in promoting bigger industries. Tourism We have also developed our growing tourism industry that takes advantage of our natural environment. We recognized the tourism industry has helped to spur the growth of the services sector that ranged from transport and communication, restaurants and hotels, to commerce and other services. From the eco tourism focus, we can now look forward to M.I.C.E or MICE. We are looking forward to see the immediate implementation of the convention centre in Kuching with the setting up of the Sarawak Convention Bureau. I urge the Bureau to start assist in placing and booking conventions to be held in Kuching. A growing lucrative tourism market that Sarawak has decided to tap into is a target marketing world of MICE which stands for Meetings, Incentives, Conventions and Exhibitions. Through this market segment, the State hopes to attract the well organized groups of high spending tourists to Sarawak. According to figures quoted by the SPU, the MICE market throughout the world is huge, reportedly at about USD300 billion annually. The State Government has developed market intelligence and data base system on these markets and planned in advance effective strategies for tapping into these markets through specialized agency of the government. The Sarawak Convention Bureau which the State Government has already established will promote Sarawak as an exotic and competitive MICE destination in this region. Critical to exploiting this market is our ability to liaise directly with the various organizations through which the MICE tourists plan their activities. Equally important, of course, is to maintain customer relationship and service through these organizations. It has been proven that the establishment of hotels, meetings and event venues, professional conference organizers, professional events and exhibition organizers, domestic air and ground transportation, eaters outlets and restaurants, just to mention a few, can open up opportunities in the MICE market. Human Resource Development or HRD Tuan Speaker, I recognize that the State has taken initiative in developing our human resource where the thrust has been to enhance the capabilities of our human capital through more effective HRD programmes which of course with emphasis on technical and skill training to increase and sustain the state’s competitiveness. I am pleased that the focus now is on skill training with the establishment of the Sarawak’s Skill Development Centre, a construction training institute under CIDB and an engineering institute, an entrepreneur and managerial skill development with youth as the prime target. In line with the objective of developing knowledge and IT based society, I would suggest that more resource centres are established throughout the State. On nominal GDP, the income generated with the State economy measured in current prices amounted to RM49.16 billion in 2005, presenting an increase of 3.9 times more than that of RM12.47 billion in the year 1990. Our per capital nominal GDP of Sarawak rose 2.8 times from RM7,467 in 1990 to RM21,260 in the year 2005. This compare well with Malaysia’s per capital nominal GDP of RM17,687 in 2005. The progressive development in Sarawak has, therefore, certainly enabled us to attain such achievements. This has to be attributed to sound policies and principles of politics of development under the exemplary leader of our beloved Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri. Focus on the State’s Ninth Malaysia Plan Tuan Speaker, the Ninth Malaysia Plan covering the period 2006 to 2010 marks the beginning of the second phase of the politics of development which is in tandem with the national Vision 2020. After having completed the first 15 years from 1991 to 2005, I fully support that the State should now move on to the next phase of the Plan from 2006 to 2020. I am confident that with the infrastructures and facilities in place, our economy is now ready for the next wave of development. Beyond providing the infrastructure to improve the quality of life of the people, a lot of attention has also been given towards preserving, enhancing the goodwill and harmony among the various ethnic groups. This is the utmost priority to us as without unity and harmony, no meaningful development can take place. That is why I believe that the development of social infrastructure as an important component of our development agenda. In every Division, the State Government has built Dewan Suarah or Civic Centres, Civic Halls, Sports Complexes and Cultural Foundations to facilitate greater interaction among the people. Like a confluence of rivers this inter-mingling of meeting of ideas, cultures and values is both enriching and empowering. I would urge that we continually remind ourselves of the concept profounded by our Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri in early 1980s and it is still all the more relevant today. Speeding up of Growth in Rural Areas Tuan Speaker, I am pleased that the State’s strategy for developing the Sarawak economy is also to speed up the growth of the rural areas. The vastness of the rural areas of the State where the future potential of Sarawak economy lies, represents great opportunities available to us to develop the State. The rural areas are naturally our development focus to quickly spread the benefits of development to our people as well as to bring about renewed growth in traditional sectors. We must speed up the growth of the rural areas to specific development plans and programmes. Rural Growth Centres The State Government has managed to focus on our own development efforts in the first 15 years by marshalling the economic potential to be integrated at rural level so as to induce critical mass. This approach has enabled us to funnel economic activities towards secondary towns and then the smaller centres which can be planned as rural growth centres or RGCs. Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri in his speech on the Ninth Malaysia Plan: The Sarawak Perspective has identified Rural Growth Centres or RGCs as a third tier of regional development. Hence, the Rural Growth Centres is seen as a major development strategy in the rural areas being closest to the rakyat. Each Rural Growth Centres will be a settlement or community of a viable size of at least 5,000 people so that all the basic amenities such as water, electricity, roads, schools and public health services and sufficient economic activities can be provided to the people as a unified economic community of their own. The Rural Growth Centres physical development plans, therefore, need to be prepared on the basis of economic development integrated with the overall potential to ensure their viability and sustainability as growth centres. Talking about Rural Growth Centres, I would urge the government to implement the Rural Growth Centres for the Stungkor area that has been approved by our beloved Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri on the 5th May, 2006 during this Ninth Malaysia Plan. Rural Development Tuan Speaker, I also stand here to support the … (Interruption) Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat, how much longer have you got to go? Y.B. Encik Peter Nansian Ngusie: Just about 10 minutes. Tuan Speaker: We have a short break. Sitting resumes at 11:30 a.m. Y.B. Encik Peter Nansian Ngusie: Okay. (Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 11:12 pagi) (Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 11:50 pagi) [Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat] Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tasik Biru. Y.B. Encik Peter Nansian Ngusie: Tuan Speaker, I also stand here to support this Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri endorsement of the government’s programme for rural development in Sarawak. Rural Development The rural population of Sarawak easily comprises more than 50% of its total population, while the rural land mass easily comprises at least 80% or over 80% of its land mass. Therefore, any development of the state cannot ignore the issue of development of the rural areas. Now, I would like to touch on the development of rural areas in the Kuching Division which I feel can be conceptualized as part of the development of the greater Kuching metropolis. Kuching city is growing very rapidly. This can be seen by rapid development of residential, commercial and industrial properties in and around the city. Kuching is slowly but surely extending its reach towards what used to be rural areas that surrounded it, for example Batu Kawah which used to be in the outskirt of Kuching is now, for all intent and purpose, part of Kuching. With the good roads and communication infrastructure that we have now, I know that some people commute daily from as far as Lundu to work in Kuching. Of course, there are many people who also commute from Bau and Serian everyday to the city. I propose that the development of Bau and Lundu and that of the adjacent areas be coordinated and synchronized with the development of the Kuching metropolis to ensure maximum and optimum benefits to these areas and their people. Bau and Lundu can be viewed as the suburban of Kuching and be considered as part of the greater Kuching metropolis. These suburbs as I described them can be developed as the hinterland of Kuching city. They provide the city with agricultural, residential, recreational, tourism facilities and supplies, for example, Siburan, Beratok and Tapah have developed their own rich roles in support of Kuching city as the primary market gardeners for Kuching. Likewise, Lundu or Sematan can be developed and promoted as integrated tourism destination for the city folks from Kuching. I also feel that the Rambungan and Sempadi areas have great potentials to be developed as similar tourist destination for the greater Kuching metropolis. The State Government may also want to consider transferring and moving some government offices and its station to the Bau District to help relief congestion in the city. With the formatted integrated development of Kuching city and its surrounding areas as part of greater Kuching, I believe that it will bring about a holistic, orderly, sustainable and equitable development. Knowledge-Based Society Tuan Speaker, our beloved Tuan Yang Terutama mentioned the need for the state to face the increasing challenges brought about the development and spread the Information and Communication Technology or ICT and the effects of globalization. Development of a knowledge-based society or a k-society is part of the second wave development proposed by our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister to enable the state to meet these challenges. I fully agree that the state does not have any choice but to work towards a k-society for us to continue to prosper in the more globalized, liberal and open future. This k-society vision was stated very clearly by our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister even in the early 2000 who wanted Sarawak attain the status before 2020. Our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister mentioned: “Sarawak must brace for the post industrial era and be able to come to grip with the opportunities and challenges even as the state hasten its current phase of development to achieve k-society at end of the year 2020.” This was reported in The Sarawak Tribune on 9th October, 2003. Another statement attributed to our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister as reported in The Borneo Post on 22nd May, 2003; “Ketua Menteri’s birthday wish - To see Sarawak attain k-based economy well before year 2020.” These are just two examples of the far-sighted vision of our Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri for the next stage of development for the state. What does it take to develop into a k-based society? As mentioned by our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister, the base of a k-society is a k-economy and a k-community. First, the state economy must develop and evolve from the current industrial and production era into an economy that is based on acquisition, creation, development, exploitation and sharing of knowledge. This is part of our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister’s second wave of development and move to service high technology and bio-technology industries that produces economic products and various ways on the exploitation of knowledge. Businesses too must adopt and must use ICT in the k-economy. The other component of k-society is no less important. The k-economy must be supported by a progressive and knowledgeable community or k-community in order to complete our transformation into a k-society. This means that the mental and cultural transformation of our people to value modern knowledge and tools and to acquire and to exploit knowledge and to become progressive communities. K-economy also requires access to information and communication technology or ICT to access to information and knowledge and to use in their daily activities and processes. As more and more services both from the government and private sector and as more and more information are published online, it is critical that the public in the state have access to the ICT tools to enable them to access the services, information and to transform into progressive and k-communities. I am very happy to know that both the Federal and the State Governments through various agencies and programmes addressing and expediting the transformation of public into k-community. The State Ministry of Rural Development has been very active in its rural ICT training programmes and has donated ICT equipment to rural schools. Other state agencies such as the Chief Minister’s Department, Sarawak State Library, Sarawak Information System Sdn. Bhd. (SAINS), SACOFA and NGOs such as AZAM has also undertake public ICT promotion and literacy programmes and trainings and provide free computers, internet facilities in rural districts and sub-districts offices. I also understand that the Federal Government through its agencies such as the Ministry of Education, Ministry of Energy, Water and Communication and Malaysian Communication and Multimedia Commission (MCMC) have programmes and projects to extend communications and internet access throughout the state. These include the SchoolNet project, universal service provision or USP program to provide telephone and internet access to the rural clinics and libraries and the USP program by MCMC to provide telephone lines to under-served areas in the state. I fully support these programs and am confident that we will achieve our Yang Amat Berhormat Chief Minister’s vision of a k-society by 2020, if these programs are fully implemented. Our state with its small population, challenging geography and spread-out population settlements is at a disadvantage in the development and spread of telecommunication and ICT facilities compared to other states in the country. According to the Ministry of Energy, Water and Communications, in June 2006, the ownership of personal computers (PCs) in Sarawak is only 9.6% compared to 19.6% for the nation. According to the MCMC in June 2006, the fixed telephone lines penetration rates in the state is 11.4%, while the national level is 16.5%. Dial-up internet penetration rate for Sarawak is 6.7% compared to 13.7% for the nation. The above figures, shows that while there is still a long way to go before we can have pervasive ICT and internet access, we are already making inroad in this area. I urge that the Federal Government provide more funding to extend basic telecommunication services to rural areas in the state. I also propose that the government considers implementing more facilities to provide free or at low cost computer and internet facilities to areas and communities that do not have or that cannot afford these facilities. Talking about educational facilities for the rural areas, may I also urge the government to implement SMK Singai, Bau during the Ninth Malaysia Plan as the three other secondary schools in this district are now already very congested and not very conducive for learning. I have suggested the site for this proposed project and it is hoped that the government approved the site to pave the way for the project to be implemented as soon as possible. Civil Service and Delivery System Tuan Speaker, I support the State Government’s serious effort to improve the delivery system of the State Public Service. As mentioned by the Tuan Yang Terutama, the State Government has introduced and implemented appropriate systems and procedures to ensure that the Ninth Malaysia Plan programs and projects are implemented efficiently and productively in Sarawak. I would also like to comment on the Government Delivery System for daily government activities, not necessarily part of the Ninth Malaysia Plan. The State Government’s approach of improving its work system through quality and process improvements combined with the use of ICT tools is very clear and very logical. I understand that the state has developed and implemented over two hundred ICT applications and has expanded its ICT network to reach almost every state government offices throughout the state. I know that this effort have tremendously improved the efficiency of work processes and systems and the public service. Coupled with this, I also understand that the state has set a target to be a fully electronic government by the year 2009 with major services being offered online. This means that all State Government services will be available anytime, anywhere there is internet access. Of course, most of the government services, such as bill delivery and payment, scholarships applications and payments, job recruitments and local authority services are already available online now. I believe, that under the current leadership in the state and the current leaders and officers that we have in the State Public Service, the state will continue to lead in improving and in providing quality services to the people of Sarawak despite our difficult geography, terrain and very scattered population settlements. Tuan Speaker, before I conclude, let me reiterate once again the importance and imperative need for us to prepare ourselves in our development effort as we enter into the next phase of the development which our beloved Yang Amat Berhormat Ketua Menteri coined as the second wave of politics of development. In essence, Tuan Speaker, we are moving from primary and secondary sectors to the tertiary, quaternary and quinery sectors of economic development of our state to ensure a bright future for this beloved country of ours. And this, Tuan Speaker, is the hallmark of the credible and responsible Barisan Nasional Government and our leaders, both at the Federal and State level. Thus, Tuan Speaker, this Dewan resolves to express its appreciation to Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri for his address to this august Dewan on the 24th July, 2006. Thank you. Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Lambir. Y.B. Encik Aidan Wing: Tuan Speaker, terima kasih kerana memberi peluang kepada saya untuk menyokong satu usul yang telah dicadangkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tasik Biru bahawa Dewan yang mulia ini bersidang dan membuat keputusan untuk merakamkan setinggi-tinggi penghargaan serta terima kasih kita kepada Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri atas Perasmian Pembukaan Penggal Pertama Dewan Undangan Negeri Yang Ke-enam Belas dan juga atas ucapan Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri semasa perasmian persidangan kita pada hari Isnin, 24 Julai 2006 yang lalu. Tuan Speaker, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri in his address has shown his caring touch and genuine concern about the welfare, wellbeing and wellness of the rakyat in this state. Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri is truly a leader who has always been close to the people, exemplified by his regular visits to the various parts of the state, especially the remote, rural, interior as well as the coastal areas. Having travelled far and wide throughout the state, he knows the needs of the people very well. We, the rakyat are most grateful to you, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri. Racial Harmony and Political Stability Tuan Speaker, in his address to this august House, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri has graciously touched on matters pertaining to social unity and harmony, internal security and the social agenda prevail in the state amidst the fast pace of economic growth that has helped to transform the state economy. Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri has also touched on the state’s economic development, human capital development, rural development, efficient utilization of energy, improvement in quality of life and effective delivery system. All these factors are very relevant and most timely for us to consider and to take heed as we continue to embark on our journey toward Vision 2020. In turn, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri has reminded us on the roles that we can play to attain, maintain and sustain this desired state of progress in Sarawak. As elected representative of the rakyat, we are duty bound to appreciate this reminder to keep us all on track in our deliberation in this august House. Tuan Speaker, we must acknowledge and appreciate the fact that racial harmony and political stability has been the hallmark of Sarawak’s vigorous, robust and sustained growth and development thus far. As rightly mentioned by Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri, racial harmony and political stability that have been achieved over the years must be nurtured, nourished, maintained and guarded at all times by all parties including the opposition members of this august House to ensure that planned development could proceed smoothly. This is also to ensure that the threshold of development, peace and harmony that we enjoyed now will be sustained and more importantly continued to be enjoyed by the future generations of our state. Roles and Responsibilities Tuan Speaker, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri has also rightly reminded all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat of their roles and responsibilities to ensure that the bedrock for the state development, namely, social unity, harmony and political stability are always maintained and safe guarded in delivering development project to the rakyat under the Ninth Malaysia Plan. In this regard, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri has correctly reiterated and given timely advice for all Members of this august House to focus on their responsibilities to serve the rakyat. The advice for all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat in this august House is to forge ahead and focus on how best to further develop Sarawak, taking into consideration the internal and external challenges faced by our state. Politic of Development and the New Reality Tuan Speaker, the progress, prosperity and development that our beloved state, Sarawak, has achieved thus far is the result of the political stability, farsightedness, pragmatic and visionary leadership of the government under the stewardship of none other than the Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri over the past twenty years. It is common knowledge that Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri has been the economic and development planner, architect and the guiding force that has steered the state in achieving the current level of developments, which is a pride of the rakyat. Indeed, the threshold of development that we have achieved so far is already on par with or if not better than other developed states in this country. Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri has had an illustrious political career at both the State and Federal levels since the formation of Malaysia. I think on 22 July, he has achieved a service of 43 years. I think this is indeed a record. I am very proud of this leadership. (Applause) With his vast experiences and in-depth knowledge about the state from all angles including geography, history and economy as well as his well thought, our development philosophy has laid down the pillars for a peaceful, progressive and prosperous Sarawak. The ideas and philosophy enshrined in the politics of development was mooted and propagated by Yang Amat Berhormat Pehin Sri Ketua Menteri. The execution of the ideas and philosophy has resulted in the rapid, steady and orderly economic growth and development transcending the region, division, district and sub-district to the village and kampong levels throughout the state. All strata of society covering the various ethnic groups have also benefited from this development. Tuan Speaker, even today, in this august House, we are very proud to see their representation. Let us not forget the road, the bridges that we use, the school where we send our children to seek their education, the facilities and amenities that lead to enhancement our quality of life are the result of the systematic and pragmatic development planning which are the main trust of politic of development. Tuan Speaker, on the other side of development other than economic benefit and physical assets, we must also acknowledge and not forget the culture, the custom, the tradition of various ethnic group in the state. Apart from the Hari Raya, Chinese New Year, Christmas, Deepavali celebrations, we also have the Gawai Dayak and the Kaul celebrations. We have carefully nurtured, acknowledge, this aspect of the state wealth and heritage through the pursuant and implementation of the state social agenda. Do not compute Malaysia like our GDP, our export earning, our poverty eradication indicators. Let us not forget that the acquired or indirect contribution of our custom and tradition and the strengthening of our values towards the growth and development of our state. We must all be proud of the fact that we are able to capitalize all our diversity and culture, custom, festival, local cuisine, I guess umai maybe, or something else and celebration to promote and achieve greater racial harmony. All these celebrations, festivals, such as the recent traditional national level Gawai Dayak will also promote harmony, tolerance, unity and stability in the state. Tuan Speaker, the economic development thrust of the state has always been to promote and achieve a balance development between the urban and rural areas. The implementation of large scale commercial projects on NCR land and rural growth centres throughout the state are done with the expressed objectives of bridging the gap between the urban and rural areas. To expedite this process, Tuan Yang Terutama Yang di-Pertua Negeri has advised all Members of this august House, including Members of the Opposition, to play their role as a catalyst of development. |