Mesyuarat DUN Sarawak 25 Julai 2006
Date: Jul 30th, 2006 9:29:56 am - Subscribe
Mood: geram
[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the Chair had received a letter from the Honourable Member for Layar who is also a Deputy Chief Minister stating inter-alia that there were efforts made yesterday in the Dewan or its precints by the Honourable Member for Padungan to effect service of Court documents or process on the Honourable Member for Layar. In this connection, I wish to draw this Dewan’s attention to Section 7 of the Dewan Undangan Privileges, Immunities and Powers Ordinance 1963 which reads, quote: “No process issued by any Court in the exercise of its civil jurisdiction shall be served or executed within the precints of the Dewan while the Dewan is sitting or through the Speaker, the Secretary or any officer of the Dewan.”
The Chair views any breach of the said Ordinance by any Member of the House with great concern and any such breach is a serious matter. Therefore, the Chair has asked the Secretary to forward a copy of the letter from the Honourable Member of Layar to the Honourable Member for Padungan, who is hereby asked to explain his conduct which prima facie appears to be a breach of Section 7 of the said Ordinance. He ought to give his explanation by tomorrow, Wednesday. In the absence of a satisfactory explanation, the Chair would have to determine what action ought to be taken under the Ordinance or the Standing Orders.
In the meantime, the Chair urges all Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat to observe and comply with the provisions of the Ordinance which is a law passed pursuant to Article 25 of the State Constitution to regulate the privileges, immunities and powers of this august House.
I now hand over to the Secretary to deliver the letter to the Honourable Member for Padungan.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, I accept the letter.
PERTANYAAN-PERTANYAAN BAGI JAWAPAN LISAN
BANTUAN MEMBINA RUMAH KEDIAMAN
(1) Y.B. Encik John Sikie Tayai bertanya kepada Menteri Perumahan: Adakah kerajaan masih memberi pertolongan kepada rakyat termiskin untuk membantu membina rumah kediaman. Kalau ada, berapakah jumlah yang terbanyak yang diberi?
Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kakus, kerajaan masih lagi membantu rakyat termiskin memiliki rumah kediaman melalui Skim Projek Perumahan Rakyat Termiskin (PPRT) ataupun apa yang dikenali sebagai PPRT dengan kerjasama Pejabat Daerah dan Pejabat Pembangunan Negeri. Setiap kelulusan permohonan berjumlah RM14,000 bagi pembinaan sebuah rumah kediaman, menerusi permohonan pembiayaan dari Pejabat Pembangunan Negeri dengan penilaian permohonan daripada Pejabat Daerah di mana pemohon menetap.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kidurong.
Y.B. Encik Chiew Chiu Sing: (Supplementary question) Will the Honourable Minister, as to whether the government would help the people who are the most poor in building their longhouses?
Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): Ya, memang ada. Kita mempunyai satu program untuk membantu masyarakat, mereka yang diam dalam rumah panjang untuk diberi bantuan.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) Yang Berhormat Menteri, that among the poorest, one of the problems is that they cannot raise loans to purchase the house. Even though for the low cost houses, it was sold at about RM30 plus thousand but because they do not have their Income Tax Return forms, so they find a difficulty for them to apply for bank loans. So is the kementerian implementing policy whereby houses were built and rented to them at a very low rent because what I know in KL the rental for such houses is about RM140 per month with three bedrooms and two toilets. Is government implementing such policy and if so how many units were built so far?
Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): For the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, there is a programme for us to build what we call flat for rental, meant for people who have no houses but they need place to stay with three bedrooms as you mentioned and we are implementing it here in Kuching. There are two projects at the moment, one is Sri Wangi and the other one is in Matang and there are some more projects under the Ninth Malaysia Plan.
BANTUAN MENINGKATKAN USAHAWAN BUMIPUTERA
(2) Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi bertanya kepada Ketua Menteri: Apakah langkah-langkah lebih mesra pihak Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara untuik membantu peniaga-peniaga kecil yang berhasrat untuk menjalankan perniagaan di premis rumah masing-masing dan di kampung-kampung dalam kawasan pentadbiran DBKU? Ramai di kalangan mereka telah menjalankan pelbagai kursus perniagaan dan keusahawanan. Jadi bagaimanakah pihak DBKU dapat membantu kerajaan dalam meningkatkan bilangan usahawan bumiputera ini dengan cara yang lebih proaktif?
PUSAT USAHAWAN BUMIPUTERA
(36) Y.B. Puan Sharifah Hasidah Sayeed Aman Ghazali bertanya kepada Ketua Menteri: Apakah langkah-langkah yang akan diambil dan dilaksanakan oleh Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara (DBKU) untuk menjadikan Sukma Ria sebagai pusat perniagaan utama khusus untuk usahawan Bumiputera di kawasan Samariang setanding dengan kawasan seperti pasar Satok?
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden Haji Majais): Tuan Speaker, izinkan saya menjawab kedua-dua soalan bagi Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Pantai Damai dan soalan (36) dari Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Semariang. Untuk makluman kedua-dua Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Pantai Damai dan Semariang, DBKU telah banyak meluluskan lesen-lesen kedai-kedai, kampung-kampung untuk penjualan barangan runcit. This is the strength of DBKU which the potential businessmen and businesswomen should take advantage and benefit from it. Namun DBKU tidak mempunyai peruntukan undang-undang untuk melesenkan premis perniagaan di kediaman yang mana juga melanggar syarat penggunaan tanah di bawah undang-undang tanah. Dalam usaha untuk membantu perniagaan bumiputera, DBKU telah mewujudkan Pasar Sukma Ria, Pasar Malam Sukma dan Pasar Mega yang bertujuan untuk memberi peluang kepada 1,852 penjaja-penjaja Bumiputera yang ketika ini masih berniaga di pasar-pasar dan pusat-pusat penjaja di kawasan DBKU Kuching. Sebanyak 63 kekosongan bagi pasar-pasar DBKU juga telah diiklankan pada Mac 2006 dahulu.
Sebagai salah satu langkah bagi membantu kerajaan di dalam meningkatkan bilangan usahawan Bumiputera, pihak DBKU juga telah mengadakan bengkel bina upaya usahawan Bumiputera. Bengkel ini telah dijayakan dengan bantuan Dewan Usahawan Bumiputera Sarawak (DUBS), Dewan Usahawan Industri Desa (DUID), Persatuan Penjaja Kecil Bumiputera Sarawak (PPKBS), MARA, SEDC dan Unit Pembangunan Usahawan, Jabatan Ketua Menteri. Objektif utama bengkel ini diadakan adalah bagi memberi peluang kepada para penjaja, para pengusaha bumiputera khususnya untuk mengetahui perkembangan terkini hala tuju, usaha serta peranan DBKU di dalam pengurusan penjaja, peniaga di Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara. Selain daripada itu, bengkel ini juga berperanan sebagai medan untuk usahawan bertukar fikiran, berkongsi pendapat, memperbaiki kelemahan dan memantapkan daya saing dan daya tahan dan mengeratkan lagi perhubungan silaturahim di kalangan para usahawan, networking agar lebih berdaya maju dengan DBKU.
Sejajar dengan agenda kerajaan di dalam Program Pembasmian Kemiskinan Bandar (PPKB), DBKU juga telah bekerjasama dengan pihak agensi pelaksana utama seperti MARA, SEDC, FAMA, MARDI, Jabatan Ketua Menteri di dalam mengeratkan usaha satu produk satu zon yang fokus kepada kumpulan sasar, kumpulan miskin. Terima kasih.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Pantai Damai.
Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: (Soalan tambahan): Selepas diadakan berbagai bentuk program dan juga pihak DBKU dan juga agensi-agensi yang lain, apakah bentuk insentif yang telah disediakan oleh pihak Kementerian Yang Berhormat kepada usahawan-usahawan kecil bumiputera yang sedang giat menjalankan aktiviti perniagaan mereka dalam kawasan pentadbiran Majlis-Majlis Tempatan seperti DBKU. Terima kasih.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden Haji Majais): Terima kasih Ahli Yang Berhormat, ada beberapa program yang boleh dikatakan insentif yang disediakan oleh kerajaan untuk maksud memberi galakkan ataupun dorongan kepada para usahawan kecil kita supaya mereka dapat mempertingkatkan, supaya mereka dapat memperkasakan keupayaan mereka dari kecil hingga menjadi usahawan yang besar seperti penambahan jumlah dana misalnya, kepada mereka supaya mereka dapat menambahkan modal perdagangan mereka, supaya mereka dapat melicinkan cash flow dagangan mereka, supaya mereka dapat membesarkan premis mereka, supaya mereka dapat menambahkan cawangan mereka dari satu tempat ke satu tempat yang lain. Dan kedua Ahli Yang Berhormat kita mempunyai satu program special iaitu, doom big programme melalui pemberian dana bertambah, melalui peningkatan exposure product mereka kepada pasaran yang lebih besar, melalui peningkatan marketing ke atas produk-produk mereka.
Usahasama di antara Jabatan Ketua Menteri dan Kementerian Pembangunan Usahawan Koperasi Malaysia misalnya, kita mempunyai satu program supaya usahawan yang berjaya akan diberi segala bantuan supaya mereka menjadi lebih maju, berjaya. Selain daripada loan ataupun geran mereka didedahkan, mereka didedahkan kepada rangkaian permasaran yang lebih besar lagi misalnya, dalam bulan Mac lalu kita membawa 16 usahawan dari seluruh Sarawak yang kita pilih di Melaka, di mana kita telah diberi anugerah oleh Timbalan Perdana Menteri menjadi good usahawan yang champion di Melaka semasa gerak usahawan peringkat nasional di Melaka tempohari. Dan, di penghujung bulan ini kita akan memilih 15 lagi ke Negara Brunei Darussalam dan pada bulan September nanti kita akan membawa mereka yang maju ke negara Jepun supaya mereka mendapat pendedahan yang lebih daripada apa yang mereka dapat di Sarawak ini. Terima kasih.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Padungan.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: (Soalan tambahan) Thank you, Tuan Speaker. Now, the problem with DBKU lies not with the plans and all the taklimat and so on that the DBKU has been promoting. The problem with DBKU lies with the insufficiency of available workable market places. For example, the Sungai Maong Bazaar … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat…
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Yes, I am asking the question.
Tuan Speaker: This is a supplementary question.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I know, I know … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: It has got to be concise, precise, not prepared for argument or debate.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: I will try my best, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Please proceed.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Now, what steps are being taken to ensure that sufficient hawker and suitable hawker places are being given to the numerous hawkers that are now trading illegally, so called in kediaman, by the road side and in many places in Bandar Kuching Utara. Now, further, further, I say, I am finishing, I am finishing…
Tuan Speaker: Further is what?
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Just a further question. I am sorry, I am shaking…
Tuan Speaker: You have to phrase your supplementary question in the form of a question and not an argument.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Tuan Speaker, I stand guided. Further, the two new pasar which is Sungai Maong and also Taman Sukma until today they are complete failures. Are there any steps to make sure that future market places set up by DBKU will be in accordance and in the expectations of the affected traders? Thank you.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden bin Haji Majais): Dari Padungan. It is not right to say it is a failure, there are people having their business there quite okay, you see. It is only a few that are frustrated for example, but … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: …. 90% err…
Tuan Speaker: Member for Padungan, the Minister is replying to your question.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: Sorry.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Usahawan dan Menteri Muda Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Tuan Haji Mohamad Naroden bin Haji Majais): There are people that are doing business quite well over there and any new proposal for new areas we will study and consider subject to availability of fund, site and availability of the project. Thank you.
Y.B. Encik Dominique Ng Kim Ho: But the name, Mayor, is never to be found Yang Berhormat.
Tuan Speaker: Only two Supplementary Questions. Now, let me remind the House for every question I will allow two Supplementary Questions, priority is given to the originator of the question. Yang Berhormat Awang Bemee Ali Basah, Nangka.
PEMBINAAN JABATAN KIMIA
(3) Y.B. Encik Awang Bemee bin Awang Ali Basah bertanya kepada Timbalan Ketua menteri dan Menteri Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan: Pembinaan pejabat Jabatan Kimia di Jalan Oya, Sibu sedang rancak dijalankan. Bilakah ianya siap untuk beroperasi? Berapakah jumlah kakitangan serta kidmat yang akan disediakan?
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, saya ingin memaklumkan Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Nangka bahawa pembinaan pejabat Jabatan Kimia di Jalan Oya, Sibu, dijangka akan siap pada bulan Mac 2007. Pejabat ini dijangka akan beroperasi apabila bangunan tersebut siap. Jumlah kakitangan adalah dianggarkan seramai 43 orang yang terdiri daripada kumpulan profesional, ahli kimia dan kumpulan sokongan pentadbiran. Jumlah kakitangan dan perjawatan yang sesuai masih di peringkat perbincangan antara Jabatan Kimia dan Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam. Makmal ini akan menyediakan perkhidmatan analisis saintifik kepada agensi kerajaan serta sektor swasta bagi kawasan bahagian Sibu, Kapit dan Mukah.
Y.B. Encik Awang Bemee bin Awang Ali Basah: (Soalan tambahan) Tuan Speaker, soalan tambahan. Bolehkah Yang Berhormat Menteri maklumkan senarai jawatan-jawatan yang telah diluluskan untuk Jabatan Kimia ini.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Memang boleh, terima kasih. Soalan tambahan yang dikemukakan oleh Ahli Berhormat bagi Nangka.
Jabatan Kimia masih berunding dengan Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam untuk menentukan perjawatan yang sesuai berdasarkan skop perkhidmatan yang dicadangkan. Jawatan-jawatan yang telah dicadangkan dan senarainya adalah seperti berikut:-
(i) Pengarah, Ahli Kimia, Pegawai Sains Gred C54 - 1
(ii) Ahli Kimia, Pegawai Sains Gred C48 - 1
(ii) Ahli Kimia, Pegawai Sains Gred C44 - 1
(iv) Ahli Pegawai Sains Gred C41 - 8
(v) Penolong Pegawai Sains Gred C27 - 3
(vi) Pembantu Makmal Gred C22 - 4
(vii) Pembantu Makmal Gred C17 - 12
(viii) Pembantu Tadbir Gred N22 - 1
(ix) Pembantu Tadbir Gred W17 - 1
(x) Pembantu Tadbir Gred N17 - 2
(xi) Pembantu Khas/Pembantu Tadbir Gred N17 - 1
(xii) Pengawal Keselamatan Gred KP11 - 4
(xiii) Pembantu Am Rendah Gred N1 - 4
Jumlahnya 43 orang. Sekian, terima kasih.
Y.B. Encik Awang Bemee bin Awang Ali Basah: (Soalan tambahan) Bolehkah Yang Berhormat Menteri maklum ongkos pembinaan jabatan ini.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Terima kasih. Ongkos pembinaan jabatan ini ialah sejumlah RM22.3 juta.
PEMBINAAN MASJID DAERAH MATU
(4) Y.B. Encik Abu Seman bin Jahwie bertanya kepada Ketua Menteri: Memandangkan Upacara Pecah Tanah bagi pembinaan Masjid Daerah Matu telah dilaksanakan pada 1.11.97. Apakah status pembinaan Masjid Daerah Matu dan bilakah pembinaan tersebut akan dimulakan?
Menteri Muda Hal Ehwal Islam dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Haji Daud Abdul Rahman): Untuk makluman Yang Berhormat bagi Jemoreng, pembinaan Projek Masjid Daerah Matu masih di peringkat memperhalusi kaedah perlaksanaannya, manakala kesesuaian tapak sedia ada dikaji semula kerana masalah tapak terletak di kawasan yang kerap dilanda banjir. Kerajaan akan berusaha untuk melaksanakan projek ini dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan, Insya Allah.
MASALAH PENJUALAN ARAK DAN GAM
(5) Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah bertanya kepada Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam: Penggunaan arak murah dan penghiduan gam amat berleluasa terutama sekali di kawasan-kawasan setinggan dan luar bandar. Apakah tindakan kerajaan untuk menangani masalah ini dan apakah undang-undang perjualan arak di kawasan majoriti Islam dikuatkuasakan?
PENJUALAN MINUMAN KERAS
(35) Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib bin Zulpilip bertanya kepada Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam: Terdapat perbuatan beberapa buah kedai runcit dan kedai kopi yang menjual minuman keras dan ada juga yang beroperasi di kawasan penduduk Islam.
(a) Adakah perbuatan kedai-kedai seumpama ini melanggar syarat-syarat pelesenan mereka dan apakah agensi yang seharusnya mengambil tindakan yang sepatutnya?
(b) Untuk mengurangkan masalah mabuk akibat minum minuman keras, adakah kerajaan akan menutup kedai-kedai tersebut atau menghadapkan pemunya kedai-kedai tersebut ke mahkamah dan berapakah jumlah kedai yang telah ditutup dan juga berapakah jumlah kes yang telah dihadapkan ke mahkamah atas kesalahan tidak mematuhi syarat-syarat tertentu?
Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Tuan Speaker, ingin saya mengambil perhatian tentang soalan (35) juga iaitu daripada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak. Memandangkan kedua-kedua soalan ini adalah mengenai isu yang sama, saya ingin memohon izin untuk menjawab kedua-duanya serentak.
Tuan Speaker, sebagai makluman Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak dan Asajaya, pihak berkuasa tempatan iaitu PBT, tidak pernah mengeluarkan lesen untuk menjual arak di kedai-kedai runcit yang terletak di kawasan di mana 80% ataupun lebih penduduknya adalah orang Islam. Walau bagaimanapun sekiranya didapati penjualan arak dilakukan di kawasan yang dilarang adalah jelas, adalah jelas, bahawa tindakan tersebut adalah salah di sisi undang-undang. Sekiranya PBT menerima aduan mengenai kegiatan tersebut maka tindakan undang-undang boleh diambil ke atas pelesen berkenaan, termasuklah merampas arak tersebut, mengkompaun dan mengenakan denda.
Tuan Speaker, PBT hanya mempunyai kuasa untuk mengambil tindakan ke atas perbuatan yang melanggar syarat-syarat lesen. Sekiranya terdapat kejadian di mana seseorang didapati mabuk dan pada masa yang sama terdapat aduan bahawanya ialah dibeli dari kedai yang tidak dilesenkan, maka PBT berhak untuk mengambil tindakan undang-undang keatas pemilik kedai tersebut dan bukannya ke atas orang yang mabuk itu. Jabatan Agama Islam mempunyai undang-undang untuk mengambil tindakan undang-undang jika pesalah itu di kalangan orang Islam. Jika pihak PBT mendapat aduan seperti ini, PBT juga akan memanjangkan perkara ini kepada Jabatan Agama Islam Sarawak.
Tuan Speaker, ingin saya tekankan di sini undang-undang dan perlaksanaan undang-undang, bukanlah perkara yang terakhir untuk membanteras gejala sosial. Memang betul undang-undang mestilah dilaksanakan dan tujuan penting perlaksanaan adalah untuk orang-orang lain tidak melakukan kesalahan iaitu deterrent, selain menjatuhkan hukuman kepada pesalah.
Tuan Speaker, pembanterasan gejala sosial bukanlah hanya tanggungjawab kerajaan. Tanggungjawab adalah semua pihak termasuk seluruh lapisan pemimpin dan masyarakat, termasuk juga pihak swasta, ibu-bapa, pertubuhan-pertubuhan NGO, ketua-ketua masyarakat dan Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat. Strategi yang berkesan ialah pendidikan, pendidikan agama, pendidikan dan keutuhan keluarga dan akhlak.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: (Soalan tambahan) Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Memang tadi Menteri ada memberitahu bahawa lesen tidak pernah dikeluarkan untuk menjual arak di kawasan-kawasan yang majoritinya beragama Islam tapi kalau kita lihat memang perkara ini amat berleluasa sekali di kawasan-kawasan yang mana majoritinya orang beragama Islam. Soalan saya seterusnya adalah pernahkah Majlis ataupun Council ataupun mereka yang mengeluarkan lesen-lesen ini, yang dipertanggungjawab untuk mengeluarkan lesen-lesen ini mengambil tindakan terhadap mereka yang menjual arak ini di kawasan-kawasan yang majoritinya beragama Islam yang mana mereka sendiri sudah tahu jugak, kedai mana-mana kedai yang menjual arak, mana-mana kedai yang tidak mempunyai lesen untuk menjual arak tapi tidak diambil tindakan. Berapa, pernahkah tindakan diambil oleh council-council berkenaan tentang masalah ini. Terima kasih.
Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Terima kasih Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Asajaya. Sebenarnya pertanyaan ini sudah ditanya dalam Dewan ini. Ahli sekalian saya telah menjawab supplementary question pada Dewan yang lepas, terdapat keadaan di mana mereka yang membeli arak itu dari seberang, saya telah memberi satu case study, satu kes yang betul ialah misalnya di kawasan Yang Berhormat Dr. Rahman Junaidi di Pantai Damai. Mereka membeli arak di seberang jambatan dan mereka minum di kampung Bintawa, minta maaflah saudara Dr. Rahman, dan kita dalam PBT kita mesti mendapat aduan, kita tidak akan mengambil tindakan kalau tidak ada aduan dan semua aduan mestilah kita siasat dan kalau didapati salah baru kita mengambil tindakan. Apa yang dibuat oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat di kawasan bahagian Kuching yang diketuai oleh Yang Berhormat Satok, kita telah membuat satu dialog dengan pihak Residen, pihak ketua masyarakat dan juga disokong oleh Jabatan Agama Islam dan kita telah membuat satu pelan tindakan untuk semua kita bertanggungjawab dan ahli masyarakat patut, kalau ada salah, kesalahan mesti membuat aduan dan hanya kerajaan akan mengambil tindakan kalau ada aduan, sebab itu saya telah menjawab tadi kalau PBT menerima aduan kita akan menyiasat dan kita akan panjangkan kepada Jabatan Agama Islam. Terima kasih.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib bin Zulpilip: (Supplementary question) Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. I brought up this question, supplementary question. Adakah Kementerian bercadang membuat arahan kepada council-council untuk menyiasat gejala penjualan arak dan minuman keras. Buat siasatan dan seterusnya menutup kedai-kedai tersebut. Terima kasih.
Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Kita telah membuat arahan kepada pihak PBT dan setakat ini belum ada, dalam setakat inilah, saya tidak nampak ada laporan, yang ada siasatan dibuat jadi kita akan memberi jawapan kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat kerana kami sebagai Ahli Yang Berhormat dari kawasan Kuching, kita telah meminta Jabatan yang tertentu dan semua pihak mengambil tindakan yang, yang patut tentang masalah ini kerana gejala sosial adalah satu masalah yang besar sekali. Terutama sekali di kalangan orang Islam.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: (Soalan tambahan) Boleh saya? Actively, for one more question, Tuan Speaker. Since the question has been, dua soalan telah dicantumkan. Boleh Tuan Speaker?
Terima kasih. Jadi tadi Menteri ada memberitahu bahawa masalah itu yang diberi contoh adalah masalah di Kuching, yang mana bandar, kalau kita lihat tempat kawasan orang Melayu dengan orang bukan Melayu, atau orang Islam dengan orang bukan Islam hampir berdekatan, kita seberang sungai saja sudah sampai ke kawasan bukan orang Islam. Jadi implimentasi undang-undang itu agak susah, sukar. Tapi kalau kita lihat di kawasan luar bandar, take for example, kawasan di Asajaya di mana 90% kawasan orang Islam, 90%, lebih 90%, kawasan orang Islam tapi terdapat kedai-kedai seperti ini yang menjual arak.
Jadi, perkara ini sudah dibawa ke atas memang saya sudah membawa masalah ini ke peringkat council. Ini bukan masalah badan agama. Ini masalah council. Adakah tindakan akan diambil terhadap kedai-kedai ini walaupun mereka tidak mempunyai lesen. They are selling it illegally. Saya mahu tindakan seperti ini.
Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Y.B. Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Saya ingin bertanya balik kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Asajaya. Adakah Ahli Yang Berhormat sendiri yang membuat aduan? Kerana saya hanya dapat menjawab perkara yang saya diberitahu oleh Kementerian. Kita akan memberi arahan kepada semua PBT. Kalau menerima aduan mesti kita menyiasat dan ambil tindakan. Saya mohon kepada semua Ahli Yang Berhormat yang mempunyai masalah ini untuk bersama mengatasi masalah ini dengan membuat pelan tindakan yang berkesan dan kami dalam PBT akan memberi kerjasama yang 100%. Terima kasih.
Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: Tuan Speaker, memandangkan soalan ini merupakan dua soalan jadi diharap dibenarkan empat soalan tambahan.
Tuan Speaker: Okay. Terakhir, terakhir.
Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: Nampaknya Yang Berhormat Menteri Muda hanya menjawab sebahagian daripada soalan yang dikemukakan oleh rakan saya daripada Asajaya iaitu mengenai dua komponen sebenarnya iaitu mengenai penggunaan arak murah dan penghiduan gam. Jadi soalan mengenai penghiduan gam itu belum dijawab. Jadi saya nak bertanya kepada Yang Berhormat Menteri kita pernah mencadangkan supaya pihak Kerajaan mengadakan satu undang-undang kecil kepada masalah penghiduan gam di kalangan belia-belia kita yang amat berleluasa di kawasan-kawasan luar bandar khasnya. Jadi umpamanya pernah dilakukan di Negeri Perlis.
Tuan Speaker: Jadi, soalan?
Y.B. Dr. Abdul Rahman Junaidi: Jadi soalan saya ialah bolehkah pihak kerajaan menyediakan satu undang-undang kecil bagi membenteraskan permasalahan penghiduan gam ini daripada berleluasa merosakkan generasi-generasi muda di negeri kita. Terima kasih.
Menteri Muda Alam Sekitar (Y.B. Dr. Abang Haji Abdul Rauf Abang Haji Zen): Masalah gam ini tertakluk kepada undang-undang setakat yang saya tahu. Kerana gam adalah diguna banyak industri. Ini adalah hal ehwal undang-undang dibuat diperingkat federal. Saya mohon kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat Pantai Damai kalau dapat kita buat satu pasukan yang dapat mengatasi masalah gam kerana masalah gam ini adalah masalah yang penting sekali dikalangan belia terutama sekali orang Melayu. Dan apa yang saya tahu kita ada banyak masalah untuk mengambil tindakan tentang kesalahan menghidu gam kerana kurang undang-undang. Terima kasih.
STATEMENT OF 1st SILICON (MALAYSIA)
(6) Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen asked the Chief Minister and Minister of Finance:
(a) The list of items sold under “Gains on disposal of property, plant and equipment” appearing in the Income Statement of 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd for the year ended 31.12.2004 amounting to RM850,322,253.00 and the name of the purchaser;
(b) How was the purchase of such property, plant and equipment financed and whether it has any financial burden on the State Government; and
(c) What was the arrangement between the purchaser of such property, plant and equipment and 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd in respect thereof after the purchase and how does it affect the merger arrangement between 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd and X-Fab Semiconductor Foundries AG in 2006.
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, for the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, Part A and Part B of your question raised are both related to an Islamic Financial Scheme undertaken by 1st Silicon in 2004 with an objective to restructuring its balance sheet so as to improve its financial position.
The restructuring of 1st Silicon’s balance sheet has a positive impact on the company as well as to the ultimate share holders i.e. the State Government of Sarawak. The gains on disposal of property plant and equipment of RM850,322,253.00 as mentioned in your question is part and parcel of an Islamic Financing transaction which involves the selling of assets to a specific purpose vehicle. In fact, the purchaser of this special purpose vehicle is the international bond holders. The sale of the fixed assets resulted in the above mentioned gain of RM850,322,253.00. The amount raised from the sale enable the company to refinance its existing debts. The sale and lease back arrangement of such property plant and equipment has comply with MASB standard namely Malaysian Accounting Standard Board standard necessary to effect the Islamic financing exercise.
Without compliance to MASB standard the financial restructuring under the Islamic scheme will not be possible. In brief therefore, the financial restructuring activity has resulted in a stronger financial position for 1st Silicon by enhancing its balance sheet via the retirement of the existing debts which has higher interest rate and restrictive debt governance. This has allowed 1st Silicon to have greater financial flexibilities going into the merger exercise between 1st Silicon and X-Fab, Germany.
As to question Part C, the Islamic Financial Restructuring is part of the State’s continuous effort to put 1st Silicon on better financial footing going into the merger exercise. As a result of the balance sheet restructuring there is now positive impact on 1st Silicon financial position as well as to its shareholders and also the newly merged entity. Thank you.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Actually, the Yang Berhormat Menteri did not really answer the questions raised because I was asking for the details of the arrangement between. What are terms? Whether there is any profit guarantee to the merger company? So that part has not been answered at all. But I want an answer in respect of that part and I am raising soalan tambahan now.
Tuan Speaker: Now before you go to soalan tambahan. The ruling is where the Minister addresses the questions that Ministerial reply answers your question.
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, its doesn’t.
Tuan Speaker: It is the ruling. Where the Minister addresses your questions. That Ministerial reply is the answer. You proceed with your supplementary.
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It was sold to some bond international bond holder. So who is going to repay the bond holder and what percentage are interest is going to be paid and I understand that the cost of sale to revenue, cost of sale to revenue ratio of 1st Silicon has been RM2.00 to RM1.00 which means you spend RM2.00 to earn RM1.00 revenue. So has it been improved and what is the cost of sale to revenue ratio now? Because nobody will invest in a business where you spend RM2.00 to earn RM1.00 and whether there is any profit guarantee given to the X-Fab?
Tuan Speaker: What’s your question? Phrase your question. One, two. Two questions.
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Firstly, what is the percentage paid to bond holder by the government in respect of the restructuring exercise? Secondly, whether there is any profit guarantee by the State Government given that, given that the cost of sale to revenue ratio is two to one.
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, the honorable Member for Kota Sentosa looks a bit confused as to what sort of supplementary questions he would like to ask.
Tuan Speaker, the list of items used in this Islamic Financial Scheme is related first to equipment and machineries and not to property and plant as mentioned by Ahli Yang Berhormat. You are wrong there. You got your facts wrong.
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It deserved financial statement. It was in the Financial Statement of 1st Silicon.
Tuan Speaker: No, supplementary question should be with the pre-text of debate
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): You are wrong. It is only related to equipment and machinery and not to property and plant as mentioned by you, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa. The gains of this RM850,322,253.00 this is approximately USD225 million are from the disposal of equipment and machinery by 1st Silicon to the purchasers ie the bond holders as required under the Islamic Financial transaction. This, as you know is to create the sale disposal and lease back arrangement between both parties where the equipment and machinery are the underlying assets. Instead of paying interest on loan under conventional borrowing, Islamic Financing cannot have any element of financial charges as it is not consider halal. Rather profits will be the incentive for bond holder to participate in these financing activities.
Tuan Speaker, the gains of RM85, 322,253.00 are derived in the following manner if the Honorable Member would like to know. Cost of equipment and machinery in terms of USD350 million. Net book value after depreciation USD125 million. Total gains USD225 million. Which is equivalent to RM85, 322,253.00. Is that answer your question.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The profit. Whether the government guarantee any profit? How much is paid to the bond holder every year? That is my supplementary question. The answer you have given is supposed to be the answer for the original question not the supplementary question.
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, the interest rates or loss is about 5.7 % to the bond holders.
Tuan Speaker: Y.B. Dato Haji Wan Abdul Wahab bin Wan Sanusi
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No. No. Is the government guarantee?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have a supplementary question he has not answered. Tuan Speaker, tuan speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Sit down, sit down.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Perhubungan (Y.B Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Di): May I answer question number 7 please?
Tuan Speaker: Yes. Yang Berhormat Dato Haji Wan Abdul Wahab bin Wan Sanusi.
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): If you like there is no profit guarantee to the X-Fab.
Tuan Speaker: Okay, that’s it. Now this is my ruling and this ruling is in New Zealand and Australia. Where the Minister addresses the questions, that questions had been answered. Whether the questioner is satisfied or not, whether he is satisfied or not. Where the Minister addresses the questions that questions had been answered. Otherwise there is no end. There are other questions as well.
PEMBINAAN JALAN BAN
(7) Y.B. Dato Haji Wan Abdul Wahab B Wan Sanusi bertanya kepada Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pembanguan Luar Bandar: Adakah pihak Jabatan Parit dan Saliran akan membina jalan ban untuk menghubungi Kampung Sungai Buluh dan Kampung Ensengei?
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Perhubungan (Y.B Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Di): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Sadong Jaya, buat masa ini pihak Jabatan Pengairan dan Saliran Sarawak tidak mempunyai cadangan untuk membina jalan atau ban dari Kampung Sungai Buloh ke Kampung Ensengei. Walau bagaimanapun, cadangan ini boleh dipertimbangkan untuk dimasukkan ke dalam senarai projek-projek Jalan Luar Bandar (JALB) yang akan dicadangkan dalam Separuh Penggal Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan yang akan datang.
IMPLEMENTATION OF WATER SUPPLY IN BAU/LUNDU AREA
(
Y.B Encik Peter Nansian anak Ngusie asked the Minister for Public Utilities: What is the status on the implementation of the western Sarawak regional water supply and how much will be done during the Ninth Malaysia Plan to ease the current shortage of water in the Bau/Lundu area?
Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tasik Biru berkenaan dengan pelaksanaan bekalan air di wilayah Bau/Lundu/Sematan, status pelaksanaan untuk pelbagai pakej projek bekalan air di bawah Bekalan Air Wilayah adalah seperti berikut:
(1) pembinaan struktur air interim pumping man sepanjang enam kilometer berdiameter 500mm dari loji air Bau ke Kampung Sebuluh telah siap pada 2003;
(2) pembinaan bekalan air Kampung Barieng, Kampung Segong yang melibatkan pembinaan saluran paip sepanjang 23.7km yang bersaiz 450mm, 355mm, 280mm, 225mm dan 160mm paip HDPE, stesyen pam penggalak dan tangki takungan air 1.3ml telah siap pada 2005;
(3) pembinaan mild steel pumping man berdiameter 700mm sepanjang 17km dari loji air Batu Kitang No. 1 ke Bau telah siap pada 14 Julai 2006;
(4) pemasangan empat (4) unit set pam dan kelengkapan sampingan di loji air Batu Kitang No. 1 adalah 60% siap sehingga Jun 2006. Projek tersebut dijangka siap dan ditauliah pada November tahun ini;
(5) dokumen tender untuk pembinaan cadangan 3.75ml tangki tangkungan wilayah Bau telah dimuktamadkan dan disiap sedia untuk proses tender bergantung kepada adanya dana peruntukan;
(6) reka bentuk terperinci untuk cadangan penyambungan paip air ke bahagian Kampung Rasau telah siap dan projek tersebut pada masa kini masih di peringkat penyediaan dokumen tender;
(7) kerja reka bentuk terperinci untuk cadangan sistem bekalan air Kampung Skiad dan cadangan sistem bekalan air Kampung Jagoi masih dalam pelaksanaan;
( Projek berikut masih dalam peringkat reka bentuk:
(a) Penyambungan paip dari Batang Kayan ke Lundu, dari Lundu ke Sematan dan ke bahagian Kampung Biawak;
(b) Cadangan stesyen pam penggalak di Batang Kayan dan tangki takungan konkrit bertetulang di Kem Sempadi.
(9) Kawasan tapak untuk stesyen penggalak di Kampung Sendaing, tangki takungan di Kampung Ulu untuk kawasan Kampung Biawak dan cadangan tangki takungan Sematan telah dikenalpasti dan permohanan tapak akan dibuat dalam masa terdekat.
Peruntukan sebanyak RM62 juta telah dihantar untuk pertimbangan Kerajaan Negeri untuk melaksanakan Bekalan Air Wilayah dalam Rancangan Malaysia Kesembilan. Pelaksanaan projek akan bergantung kepada jumlah peruntukan yang diluluskan di dalam RMK9.
PELAKSANAAN PEMBANGUNAN TANAH NCR
(9) Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh bertanya kepada Menteri Kemajuan Tanah:
(a) Apakah rancangan masa depan kementerian supaya sasaran untuk pelaksanaan pembangunan tanah NCR yang lebih kurang 1.3 million hektar dapat tercapai sebelum tahun 2020?
(b) Setakat ini, berapakah permohonan telah dimajukan kepada kementerian yang belum diluluskan atas beberapa sebab dan berapa hektar tanah NCR telah dibangunkan semenjak konsep ini dilaksanakan?
Menteri Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B Encik Francis Harden ak. Hollis): Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tamin, pada tahun 1997, kerajaan telah mensasarkan penanaman 1.0 juta hektar kelapa sawit menjelang tahun 2010. Daripada 1.0 juta hektar ini, 400,000 hektar tanah NCR akan dibangunkan menerusi Konsep Baru Pembangunan Tanah Hak Adat Bumiputera. Ketika ini kita berusaha sedaya upaya untuk merealisasikan sasaran pencapaian untuk membangunkan 400,000 hektar tanah NCR menjelang tahun 2010.
Soalan (b), setakat ini, Kementerian Kemajuan Tanah Sarawak telah menerima 110 permohonan untuk memajukan tanah NCR berdasarkan Konsep Baru Pembangunan Tanah NCR. Daripada 110 permohonan ini, 41 kawasan telahpun diluluskan, dan 69 permohonan belum atau tidak diluluskan atas sebab-sebab berikut:
(1) Kawasan yang dituntut sebagai tanah NCR adalah tanah kerajaan;
(2) Kawasan yang dipohon didapati bertindih dengan provisional lease dan kawasan tadahan air;
(3) Kawasan NCR terlalu kecil dan berasingan di antara satu dengan yang lain di dalam kawasan yang dipohon;
(4) Maklumat yang diketengahkan oelh pemohon tidak tepat dan pemohon gagal untuk memberi penjelasan susulan apabila dikehendaki berbuat demikian; dan
(5) Proses menentusahkan status tanah hendaklah dijalankan dengan teliti dan cermat.
Jadi, menerusi Konsep Baru Pembangunan Tanah NCR, 41 kawasan telah diluluskan oleh kerajaan dengan keluasan kasar 375,013 hektar. Setakat 31 Mac 2006, 31,726 hektar tanah NCR telah ditanam dengan kelapa sawit. Sejumlah 21,396 hektar telah mengeluarkan hasil manakala 10,330 hektar belum lagi matang.
Y.B. Encik Joseph Mauh anak Ikeh: (Soalan Tambahan: Selain dari secara besar-besaran di negeri Sarawak, adakah Kementerian bercadang untuk menanam ladang getah atau rumbia atau sagu secara besar-besaran memandangkan harga sagu dan getah sangat membrangsang samada di peringkat domestik atau di peringkat global? Sekian, terima kasih.
Menteri Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden anak Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan tambahan. Kementerian sekarang masih dalam perbincangan dalam program untuk penanaman yang lain.
Y.B. Dr. Haji Wahbi Haji Junaidi: (Soalan Tambahan) Tuan Speaker, di sesetengah kawasan di Sarawak ini, terdapat kawasan kecil sejumlah 200 hektar NCR dan mereka memerlukan satu pembangunan estet (small estate). Adakah Kementerian Kemajuan ini masih lagi mengeluarkan satu peruntukan pembangunan estet ataupun kementerian-kementerian lain seperti Kementerian Pertanian dan Kementerian Luar Bandar?
Menteri Kemajuan Tanah (Y.B. Encik Francis Harden ak. Hollis): Untuk menjawab soalan tambahan yang kedua, Kementerian Pembangunan Tanah ada cadangan, ada program untuk program mini estet.
PROSPECT OF 1st SILICON (MALAYSIA) SENDIRIAN BERHAD
(10) Y.B Encik Wong Ho Leng to ask the Chief Minister and Minister for Finance: In respect of 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd.:
(a) Please list details of the reported joint venture/merger between state-owned wafer foundry 1st Silicon (Malaysia) Sdn. Bhd. and X-FAB Semiconductor Foundaries AG such as proposed equity for and proposed capital investment of the foreing partner, and how this could help or salvage the State Government’s investment in 1st Silicon (Malaysia) sdn. Bhd. by way of recovering the accumulated losses, if any.
(b) What are the prospects of the joint venture making money, especially in the light of growing regional and global competition in the fad industry; and
(c) The total employment in 1st Silicon and/or the joint venture, stating in terms of local vis a vis foreign employees and their qualifications.
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): Tuan Speaker, for question part A, I would like to inform Ahli Yang Berhormat for Bukit Assek that the merger agreement between X-FAB of Germany and 1st Silicon (M) Sdn. Bhd. was signed on 22 March 2006. Under the merger exercise, the shareholders of 1st Silicon and X-FAB Germany will inject their respective assets into newly-merged company called X-FAB-1st Silicon Foundries Semiconductor. In return and under the new and large entity with the assets and plant present in Malaysia, Germany, United States and United Kingdom, both shareholders i.e. State Government of Sarawak and Extrium will respectively own approximately 35% and 65% in the newly merged company.
Since the signing of the merger agreement in March of 2006, the State has been actively engaging X-FAB the various regulatory, domestic and international authorities and financial institutions on required matters essential to finalise the closure of the main merger exercise. In order to safeguard and protect the interest of the State in this merger exercise, it is important that market sensitive information on the merger be properly managed, failing which it may jeopardize opposition going into conflicting this merger.
At this juncture, I would like to inform Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat or I would like to refresh your memories on why 1st Silicon was mooted from the beginning. As all Members of this august House may still remember, in the late 1990s, 1st Silicon was the high priority and strategic investment supported by the Federal government and initiated and spearheaded by the State of Sarawak. High-tech industry as a new source of economic growth was one of the key factors selected to transform, restructure and diversify the state economic base and foster development from its traditional, natural resource and agriculture-based industry. Wafer fabrication was a tactical choice to spearhead the State of Sarawak entry into the high-tech and knowledge intensive industry. All of which is to accelerate the industrialisation process towards attaining our nation vision 2020. This is also in line with the State effort to upgrade our economic development and human capital. Only with such an industry can the State of Sarawak move to the next phase of developing a k-economy and compete with the rest of the world.
When 1st Silicon was initiated in the late 1990s, the state was fully aware of the long gestation period required for such a capital intensive industry. Unfortunately, due to the global semiconductor worse and protracted downturn in history 2001-2003 and a global inventory correction in the late 2004 through third quarter of 2005, 1st Silicon performances were further exacerbated. Like 1st Silicon, similar investment which are capital incentive with long gestation period are evidence in other industries such as aerospace, bio-tech, steel, chemicals, hydro and power plant. Countries like United States of America, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan and Ireland have invested and even given grant as incentive to kick start such capital intensive industries.
Therefore, like 1st Silicon, it should not be merely view from the perspective of normal profit and loss only, rather, it is an investment essential to keep start the industry which will propel the state to the next phase of development in economic growth.
Thereon, that there is already evidence of positive economic spill of the effect in Sarawak. Where as sustained growth in 1st Silicon will have favourable impact on the state as a whole, such as, creation of clusters and supporting industry, such as, design house logistic specialize chemical, construction, insurance packaging etc. Creation of new clears for the development of the intellectual properties, process technology, integrated circuit design etc. Enhancement of manufacturing capability and global connectivity of Sarawak. In addition, this were also provide catalyst in other domestic industries of the future as this will stimulate investments particularly in the value added acknowledge based sectors, broadband technology for example, bio-tech etc.
Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, I must say that, the timeliness of this merger also means that the following key development will transform 1st Silicon.
(1) Transformative merger with X-Fab Germany ensures 1st Silicon’s competitive position is significantly enhance.
(2) Strong synergies with the merger, there are strong synergies for 1st Silicon in respect to the following:
(a) Complimentary technology and manufacturing capabilities.
(b) Proven management and technical expertise and know how
(c) Research and development capabilities
(d) Sale and marketing network
(e) New growth prospect through expended customer base.
There will be little or no duplication in personnel with the merger. We have now in fact, wider, global business coverage. The merge company will be in top seven in the world in terms of production capacity. There will be presence in Asia, Europe and United States.
Hence of with the various states’ initiative taken to restructure 1st Silicon over the past five years, it has improved and has now reached the point of inflection where a merger with a strategic partner becomes inevitable. This merger is essential in order to elevate 1st Silicon into the next phase of growth and these mergers were now allowed us to be a global player in the semi conductor industry.
I am confident that this will now help profile Sarawak in the international market as a place, which is conducive for foreign direct investments.
I would like to touch on the prospects of joint-venture. With X-Fab Germany as our new partner, we aspect that the merger will transform 1st Silicon into an entity capable of providing a broader range of products, wider geographical reach and business modal which focuses on products with a longer shall lives with stable pricing. X-Fab has also has proven profitable business modal and one of the most established market leader in analogue business with strong technical expertise in niche market technologies. The business modal of the merge entity will focus on market segment where the products has longer shall lives, better profitability, product mix which constantly generic positive cash flow positions and stable selling price. With the merger 1st Silicon will be a global player with bigger market share and greater growth potentials.
In social economic terms, 1st Silicon has made available employment opportunities. This is to answer your question (c). 1st Silicon has made available employment opportunities to the people of Sarawak, previously not available to them. In total about 90% of the 1st Silicon, 1060 employees are Sarawakians. The remaining 10% consists of foreign national who are employ for these specialists’ technical skills. These skills are largely in the areas of specialize engineering and research and development. It is the intention of the State and the 1st Silicon that more young Sarawakians engineers shadow this foreign expert and thus, don’t know how it transfer on the daily basis to the sons and daughters of Sarawak. Out of the 950 Sarawakian employees, 35% namely 333 staffs are engineers and the remaining has at least some form of technical qualification either Diploma or Certificate in require technical field. The remaining 10% of foreign expert have at least a related technical engineering Degree and many have a Master and Doctorate qualifications.
Last but not least, the overall domestic human capital market an intellectual know how development will be further strengthen and this include harnessing the State capability in human capital planning and development retaining and developing domestic human capital resources, brand power and technical talents. Encouraging partnership with foreign and local universities for talents and innovations attracting quality foreign professionals. Thank you.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) In terms of selling its manufacture products, how is 1st Silicon fairing at this moment in time?
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): This is not part of the questions you have asked, but, I will answer your question, what is your question, in terms 1st Silicon products is it?
1st Silicon develops its technologies and processes of capable of producing wafers of .25 and .28 micron geometries and 1st Silicon has also started to production .13 micron products. 1st Silicon product technologies spent not only the markets for cellular phone, handheld video games but also image censors and a high voltage technology. And 1st Silicon is also in the process of developing technology for the auto mobile sector consumer electronic and smart cards. The company has started production of chips for smart cards, passport and IC cards and so on.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: (Supplementary question) When 1st Silicon was first started, the government are positions is that, is going into the high end market which means the top class, top technical field high end market. But recently, after the merger from the announcement made by 1st Silicon is targeting at the niche market which is lower end of the technology market. So my question is, is that a backward … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: What is the premise of your question? What is the premise of your question.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, and another question … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: No. Only one question. Ask one question.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Given that, given that, given that, 1st Silicon has made the lost of 2.5 billion in four years which is more than the total allocation of funds for roads in Sarawak under 8th Malaysia Plan. Given that, who has been … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: No, no, no. You cannot ask supplementary like this. I will not permit. I shall not permit. Question time is up.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: A motion. Under Standing Order 23(2)(b), a motion relating to a matter of privilege. I was given to understand in the … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: You are raising matter under …
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under the Standing Order 23(2),
Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 33 … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Standing Order 23
Tuan Speaker: Standing Order 23, Ya.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen:: Sub paragraph 2(b), a motion relating to a matter of privilege.
Tuan Speaker: Ya
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, so, I am seeking a motion to clarify because there is a contradictory statement. There’s a statement, quite confusing statement made by a Menteri Muda from report in newspaper this morning, saying about the uniform. Uniform, the cost of uniform is to be borned by the ADUN themselves, not by the public coffer … (Mandarin). This is a statement by a Assistant Minister, saying that the uniform made for the ceremony, the cost of which is borned by individual Ahli Dewan Undangan Negeri. So, but my understanding is that, previously it is from the government fund. So, I would like to seek clarification, my motion is just to seek clarification, which is correct? Is the Assistant Minister is correct, or my understanding is correct? I wish Mr. Chairman can give me the answer on this matter.
Tuan Speaker: Not Chairman, Speaker, Speaker.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Oh, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Tuan Speaker: No. Our order of the day is governed by Standing Order 11. So you cannot jump the gun. Under Standing Order 11 we have here, unless your motion is under 15. You cannot change the Order of the Day. We are now moving to bills.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Clarification is confusing the public as well as is confusing … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Where is the motion?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: A motion, a motion, you see a … (interruption)
Tuan Speaker: There is no motion under uniform.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no. It is a privilege relating to, relating to the ADUN. It is a privilege. Whether this is the privilege or not, whether it is a privilege given by this House that the uniform, uniform being sponsored by the government or to be borned by each and every individual Ahli Dewan Undangan Negeri … (interruption)
Tuan Speaker: There is no motion of … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Tuan Speaker, may I add something here.
Tuan Speaker: No, no. There is no motion. You have to file the motion. You file the motion.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Don’t need. This no need. This is a acception. Acception to the normal motion. Unless this Standing Order otherwise given. Notice shall be given, notice can be given now, which is, of any motion which is propose to move with the acception of the following. This motion need not, need not any notice be given.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Exactly, Tuan Speaker, under Standing Order 23(2), there is no need to give notice of motion in respect of 20(2)(b). And the issue touch by Member for Kota Sentosa is, one question of privilege. The privilege concerning the ceremonial uniform, who is paying the cost, is he as a Member of public by the consolidated fund, legislature or by the Member of themselves. I think this is an issue which is important and the issue has to be clarified.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, I think personal explanation, I would like to mention (i) under Standing Order 20 … (Interruption).
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Standing Order 22.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Wait, wait. Under Standing Order 20(1)(i) a question shall not be asked as to whether statements in the press are correct or not, right. I can decline not to explain but in order to clarify the air, now during my times, many years ago, uniforms are made and paid by ourselves. That was there and then. Now the new incident whether your uniform if there is are to be paid by you or not that is under the new arrangement. Understand.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is why I am seeking clarification. I am not pointing finger at anyone. I am just seeking clarification on this matter whether it is borne by public coffer or borne by individual ADUN.
Tuan Speaker: Clarification has been made, right.
RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN "
BACAAN KALI YANG KEDUA
SARAWAK TIMBER INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, saya memohon untuk mengusulkan rang undang-undang untuk meminda Ordinan Perbadanan Kemajuan Perusahaan Kayu Sarawak untuk dibaca buat kali kedua.
Tuan Speaker, the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (STIDC) was established under the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation Ordinance, 1973 No. 3 of 1973. Its principle role is to provide and regulate into earlier downstream timber industries in Sarawak.
Under the Sarawak Timber Industry Registration Regulations, 1999, any person who (i) carries on the manufacture of timber which includes logs or (ii) engages in the sale, distribution or marketing of timber has to be registered with STIDC. Upon such registration, STIDC will be issued the person with a certification of registration valid for a period of one year from the date of issuance thereof. The certificate may be renewed. On each renewal, the validity of the certificate will be extended for a period of 12 months.
Tuan Speaker, sawmills which have to be licensed by the Director of Forests under Section 66 of the Forests Ordinance are also required to be registered with STIDC. There is, therefore, certain overlapping of regulatory functions between STIDC and the Department of Forests. This also results in different periods of validity for the licences issued with the Director of Forests and the certification of registration issued by STIDC creating difficulties in enforcement by the two agencies.
Tuan Speaker, my ministry feels that all upstream timber operations are to harvest trees, to produce logs which maybe sawn or and cut into sawn timber in the sawmills should be regulated by the Director of Forests as empowered under the Forests Ordinance. STIDC, on the other hand, would regulate all other downstream timber activities or industries but by way of principle legislations rather than through subsidiary legislations such as the said regulations.
It is also felt that STIDC’s regulatory and enforcement powers should also be strengthened in order to enable STIDC to properly and effectively regulate the downstream timber industries so as to eliminate illegal activities such as the unlawful purchase or supply or import of timber for processing or the manufacture wood-based products and furniture as well as to actually promote a vibrant and progressive timber industry in Sarawak whose products should be high quality and competitive in the world market.
Thus, this bill seeks to make provision for the cancellation or suspension of the certification of registration where its holder permits any breach of the probation of any written law or is found to be unlawfully employing or harbouring illegal migrants or workers on the buildings or premises is viewed or extended in contravention of any written rule including Part 10 of the Land Code for the Building Ordinance, 1994.
Tuan Speaker, towards attaining the objectives that I have just outlined, the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 is now presented for deliberation before this august House.
Tuan Speaker, the bills primarily objective is to add probation to the Ordinance which would enable STIDC to better and more effectively regulate the downstream timber industries and to promote the orderly and healthy growth thereof so that its products are of good quality and competitive in the global market.
Having a better regulatory system by way of principle rather than subsidiary regulation would strengthen enforcement procedures which are geared towards tackling malpractices such as the purchase of logs from illegal sources or suppliers for processing or manufacture of wood-based products. In so doing, the government feels that illegal logging can be controlled as those who indulged in such activities would soon discover there is no longer a market for their illegal felled timber logs. Tuan Speaker, legal effect of the probations of the various clauses of the bill is contained in the explanation statement to the bill.
Tuan Speaker, Rang Undang-Undang ini jika diluluskan akan memastikan perancangan dan pembangunan tapak atau estet perindustrian yang lebih teratur untuk memenuhi keperluan industri hiliran serta industri berasaskan kayu kerana loji-loji atau kilang-kilang untuk memproses kayu dan membuat produk berasas kayu tidak boleh dibina jika ianya bertentangan dengan mana-mana undang-undang bertulis termasuk Bahagian 10 Kanun Tanah. Dengan lulusnya rang undang-undang ini, kerajaan berharap agar perusahaan memproses kayu dan produk berasaskan kayu tidak akan dibina dan beroperasi di atas tanah yang bercanggah dengan syarat kegunaannya.
Kerajaan juga berharap agar ianya dapat membantu mengawal atau mengurang pencemaran alam sekitar atau kacau ganggu terhadap aset berhampiran yang disebabkan oleh aktiviti-aktiviti tersebut.
Tuan Speaker, saya percaya semua Ahli Yang Berhormat akan memberikan sokongan terhadap rang undang-undang ini yang akan memantapkan industri perkayuan hiliran kita ini.
Saya dengan ini memohon untuk mengusulkan.
Tuan Speaker: Can I get a Minister to second? One Minister to second.
Menteri Kewangan II dan Menteri Pembangunan Bandar dan Pelancongan (Y.B. Dato Sri Wong Soon Koh): I beg to second, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question is that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time. Any Member wishes to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat for Jepak.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much, Tuan Speaker. I am happy to note that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill is being tabled to improve our timber industry. Yesterday, the Forest (Amendment) Bill was deliberated upon. The two bills and amendments have inter- related impact. I would like to say well done to the government for bringing up today the Ordinance to address the various issues and concerns of the industry.
We all know for instance there is timber tap, we all know that. This is bad for the industry and the economy as a whole. It is the duty of everyone in this august House to see that this is stopped. If by defining the rules and regulations or amending the bill will become better, then why not. Let that industry be better organized goes without saying… (Interruption).
Tuan Speaker: Yes, Bukit Assek.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Clarification, Ahli Yang Berhormat. You were saying, we all know, we all know, that is timber tap. Actually since when do we know and how serious do you think the issue is or do you know the issue is.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talip Zulpilip: Well, we hear of it. I am sure Member for Bukit Assek is not that innocent. Just go to coffee shop, you will hear and we have to stop it. That is what, I am looking at the economic, not the legality of it. Okay.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I agree that illegal logging has to be stopped and the law must be enforced. The question I was asking was since when do we know about illegal logging and since so many years ago and so many decades ago, and what have we done as illegal logging is still rampant. What have we done?
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: I believe there have been arrests, there have been confiscations, they are in the newspapers, so the problem is there and I believe they have been addressed but I believe we should do more, okay, in the interest of the economy of the state. Thank you, Member for Bukit Assek for supporting my view there. Thank you very much (Laugher).
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Put it this way, Ahli Yang Berhormat, anything that the government does which is beneficial to the people which is in enforcement of the law, not only myself, my whole party will support it.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much. We are on the same wave length then (Laughter), the government is doing it for the benefit of the people. Thank you, brother, so I have no objection you coming back to this august House (Laughter); in that respect but otherwise, okay we remind friends and other thing, okay.
Now we are not going to quarrel with this. We are going to agree we do something. Okay, now we know there is tap, we have to stop it. Here, I would like to see that the amendment would make it more organized, the industries more organized and more efficient. One area that I found unsatisfactory is the manner of waste disposal in the industries. It is a known fact that some fact that some factories owners pour chemical or oil into drains and directly into rivers. This would do untold damaged to the environment which will in turn negatively affect other economic activities such as tourism fishing.
I hope the amendment would also add more teeth to the enforcement of the existing laws to improve the behaviour of the industrialist. Another area that has impact on the industry is the high and efficient utilization of logs in the industry. Even wastes such as sawdust and off cuts and barks are turned into useful products. We have to aim for that.
Countries such as Taiwan or Japan are still competitive in terms of downstream activities because they utilize a very high percentage of the log even when they have to import this raw material. The same goes with China. Our local industry should strive to achieve this high level of utilization. What do we have here in Sarawak? We still see timber or sawmill operators throwing away sawdust or off cuts. I still recall fishermen complaining that instead of catching fish they have balls of sawdust and their nets damaged by the irresponsible behaviour of the few. I draw my experience when I was still Permanent Secretary of Ministry of Industrial Development.
Similarly, we still see incinerators producing smoke especially in rural areas, not as bad as it used to be, but still burning no doubt. They burn sawdust instead of producing more value to the industry. Now, this wasteful practice must stop.
Tuan Speaker, if this amendment will help reorganize the industry, make it more efficient, create jobs and bring in new technology and more profit ultimately. I, for one, give it my fullest support. Thank you very much.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Sebuyau.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Narawi: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Saya bangun untuk sama-sama memberi sedikit pandangan tentang rang undang-undang Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 seperti yang telah dibentangkan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II merangkap Menteri Kemudahan Awam dalam Dewan yang mulia ini.
Saya percaya rang undang-undang ini wajar disokong oleh semua Ahli berlandaskan kepada pentingnya rang undang-undang ini kepada kepentingan ekonomi negeri kita khususnya dalam usaha kita untuk mempertingkatkan perusahaan kayu di negeri Sarawak dalam jangka masa yang panjang.
Berdasarkan rang undang-undang ini, pindaan rang undang-undang ini, Tuan Speaker, PUSAKA akan mengambilalih sebahagian daripada tugas-tugas yang ada pada masa ini yang dijalankan oleh Jabatan Hutan. Ini juga bermakna bahawa kedua-dua agensi ini dapat memberi tumpuan yang sepenuhnya berdasarkan kepada bidangkuasa baru masing-masing agar ianya lebih efisien serta teratur di samping dapat mengurangkan pertindihan tugas-tugas dan seterusnya meningkatkan penggunaan tenaga sumber manusia dengan lebih kos efektif lagi.
Dengan lain perkataan, Tuan Speaker, pindaan rang undang-undang ini akan menyediakan rangka perundangan yang lebih jelas untuk mengawasi aktiviti-aktiviti yang berasaskan kayu di Negeri Sarawak oleh kedua-dua agensi ini iaitu PUSAKA dan Jabatan Hutan.
Tuan Speaker, dengan adanya pindaan rang undang-undang ini PUSAKA akan sentiasa dapat memainkan peranan yang lebih proaktif dan lebih efektif dalam mengurus dan membangunkan industri perkayuan di Negeri Sarawak. Selain daripada itu juga, saya yakin, saya yakin pindaan ini khususnya akan dapat memperkukuhkan kuasa PUSAKA yang sedia ada bagi mempastikan supaya industri perkayuan dibangun dengan cara yang lebih teratur.
Dalam pada yang sama, Tuan Speaker, saya percaya bahawa ianya akan dapat mempastikan aktiviti-aktiviti yang kurang sihat akan dapat diambil tindakan oleh PUSAKA berlandaskan kepada pindaan rang undang-undang ini.
Tuan Speaker, perusahaan kayu di Negeri Sarawak perlu juga kita lihat dalam konteks perubahan dan perkembangan pasaran di peringkat antarabangsa. Oleh itulah maka saya percaya bahawa kita perlu merangka strategi, kita perlu merangka strategi yang berasaskan kepada kekuatan kita sendiri iaitu kita mempunyai, mempunyai sumber yang mencukupi dan kita perlu membangunkan sumber kayu kita. Dalam erti kata kita perlu memperbagaikan produk yang berasaskan kayu tetapi berdasarkan kepada kriteria yang dikehendaki oleh para pengguna di peringkat antarabangasa. Dan oleh itulah saya merasakan bahawa pindaan ini akan membolehkan PUSAKA untuk memain peranan yang lebih bermakna dan peranan yang lebih berkesan sejajar dengan keperluan para pengguna di peringkat antarabangsa khususnya dalam usaha untuk mempelbagaikan produk yang berasaskan, berasaskan kayu di negeri kita.
Dan pada masa yang sama, Tuan Speaker, saya yakin bahawa dengan pindaan ini juga PUSAKA akan dapat memain peranan untuk, untuk terus membolehkan pengusaha-pengusaha di Negeri Sarawak terus meningkatkan value added products yang akan diusahakan di masa-masa yang akan datang dengan erti kata bahawa kita boleh menggunakan, kita boleh menggunakan produk kayu kita 100% dan pada masa yang sama kita tidak akan mencemar alam sekitar kita. Ini bermakna bahawa kita akan membolehkan PUSAKA menekankan kepada value added products in the near future.
Di sinilah, Tuan Speaker, saya berasakan bahawa pindaan ini memang amat sesuai untuk membolehkan PUSAKA memain peranan yang begitu penting di masa-masa yang akan datang dan di sini juga saya berpendapat bahawa penguatkuasaan rang undang-undang ini memang perlu dilakukan dengan sebaik yang mungkin oleh pihak PUSAKA dan saya yakin PUSAKA yang telah ditubuhkan sejak 35 tahun yang lepas mempunyai kepakaran, mempunyai pengalaman yang mencukupi untuk menguatkuasa segala undang-undang yang diamanahkan kepada PUSAKA.
Dengan pandangan ringkas ini, Tuan Speaker, saya menyokong agar pindaan rang undang-undang ini dilulus dengan sepenuhnya oleh Dewan yang mulia ini. Terima kasih.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, we have a short break. Sitting resumes at 11:15 a.m.
(Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 10:54 pagi)
(Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 11:35 pagi)
[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Tuan Speaker: Any Honourable Member wishes to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you, Tuan Speaker, for allowing me to participate on this Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006. I have a few points to rise.
One is about the effectiveness of the creation of this enforcement power to STIDC. I was told that previously the enforcement power to catch illegal logging is under the Protection Division of the Forest Department and subsequently the Government set up an additional division which is called Security and Assets Protection Unit (SAPU) to take over the Protection Division but the result doesn’t seem to be an improvement in the enforcement. Previously under Forestry Protection Division, annually they made seizure of illegal logs amounting to approximately RM4 million of which an incentive has been paid out approximately RM2 million to its officer working on the seizure of illegal logs. Then, come the SAPU (Security and Assets Protection Unit). The seizure done in the last three years by SAPU, the seizure of illegal logs amount to less than RM1.8 million for three years, for the last three years and SAPU has to spend about RM1.5 million to guard the seized logs. Whether it is justified for such spending and what has the government have in plan actually to improve. I know we are setting out the enforcement gimmicks, STIDC the enforcement power but what is the personnel now in STIDC and what plans to counter these illegal loggings which is different from previously except that we changed the entity to enforce the law. What other plans has been implaced or is in the process to be implemented because I believe for the last three years only RM1.8 million worth of seized logs that I don’t know whether there is an improvement in the system whereby the illegal loggers are logging less or there has been some tip-off or corruption involved in the enforcement so that the illegal loggers are not caught. So my question here is first point that I wish to raise is what is the improvement in the whole system, in term of personnel, in term of operation that will be implemented which is different from the enforcement of SAPU or Forestry Department.
In our system here in Malaysia, whenever there is a problem arise very often the government will set up a department here and there trying to tackle the problem but at the end, the inefficient enforcement problem will still crop up and the problem remains a problem without being solved despite new departments have been set up but despite much of the tax payers’ money has been spent to set up this new unit. So, I hope this will not be the case after the transfer of power from Forest Department to STIDC.
And the second point that I wish to raise in my debate here, I have a lot of worries on the power that is given under this Act to STIDC and the far-reaching effect of such provision which are in particular 5(e)(1). Any person who without a valid certificate of registration issued in accordance with Section 5(a)(1):
(a) Carry out any business or activity relating to or connected with a timber industry; or
(b) Proceeds with work to build or construct any plant, factory or premises to carry out any business or activity connected with a timber industry or is involved in the management operation of such plants or premises shall be guilty of an offence and the penalty is RM300,000.
My concern is any person carrying out business, any businesses or activity relating to or connected with a timber industry and if we care to refer to the definition section which is timber industry. Timber industry here means :-
(a) Any business or activity relating to the manufacturer of timber or timber products; and
(b) The sale, distribution and marketing of timber and there is also if we look at the parent Act, the parent Ordinance, sales, distribution or marketing of timber means the businesses of or any activity connecting to the selling, supplying, transporting, exporting, importing or storage of timber or timber products that is sales, distribution or marketing of timber and if we look at timber products that is the concern. That is the crust of my debate, of my argument here.
Timber products include timbers which have been processed. There is an amendment here or sawn or hewn will be deleted. That means that timber products after the amendment will be “timber products include timbers which have been processed and any goods or articles or products made of or manufactured from timber” which means literally any products that is made of timber will be caught under this Act and any person selling any product that is made of timber…(Interruption).
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, it is not an Act.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: An Ordinance.
Tuan Speaker: Ordinance. Yes.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Caught under this Ordinance and any person who is selling a timber product will be caught under this Ordinance. In a way, if you sell a pencil which is made of timber, you will likewise be caught under this Act or a coffin … (Interruption).
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I was just about to mention that. Thank you.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Or a coffin-maker or carpenter. They will all be caught under this Act.
Even before the introduction of this act, I have received complaints from people in Kuching traders. They are carpenters. They are not even carpenter, they are selling tables, chairs in their shops. They have been approached by STIDC to ask them to register with STIDC, failing which they will be fined RM1,000 and now with the introduction of this amendment, they will be fined for RM300,000 and the cost of such registration few hundred ringgit Malaysia a year. That is a heavy burden on the small traders, a cobbler " a person who makes shoes. The heel of the shoes made of timber, timber products if we interpret the act according to the interpretation, the definition.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, if I may touch on this illegal logging. Now I just want to know what are his stand with regard to illegal logging and their enforcement with regard to illegal logging.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I pass that and I will come to it later. But my concern here is about the far-reaching effect of this amendment, of this bill which means literally the stationery shop, the convenience store if they do sell pencils or anything, any article made or manufactured from timber is considered timber product. Are we saying that all these shops have to get certification from STIDC? That would be very ridiculous, I would say.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, as a lawyer, I believe Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa is a lawyer. We are discussing about the manufacturers. It is not … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Not the sellers.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Not the sellers.
Tuan Speaker: Okay, confine to the … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: We refer to the definition section, definition section of the act, Yang Berhormat. Timber industry would mean sale, distribution and marketing of timber. And if you look at the parent ordinance, sale, distribution or marketing of timber. Do you have a copy of the parent ordinance with you? It is not in the amendment? We want to look at the whole effect. Sale, distribution or marketing of timber means any of the business or activity relating to the selling, supplying, transporting, exporting, importing or storage of timber or timber products. And under the parent ordinance, timber products include timbers which have been processed and any goods or articles or products made or manufactured from timber. That literally means that anything that is made of timber would be caught under this ordinance after the amendment. If we don’t intend to have such an effect, then we should in the drafting of this ordinance, of this bill, we should spell it out carefully so that the enforcement officer would not be given such a power to go around and asking people to register failing which you will be fined RM300, 000 now.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Ahli Yang Berhormat, I think according to the Minister, the object of the bill is to control or to nab illegal logging. Now my reading of the amendment bill seems to be that it encompasses other areas, anything to do with timber products. Would you agree with me on this point?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, exactly. That is my concern here because some shops selling furniture, furniture shops, they were approached previously by SAPU officers asking them to list down. Okay, this table how many percentage of your goods sold, your merchandise is made of belian, how many percentage is made of selangan batu. How on earth would they know that they are merely selling but they are caught previously under the regulations and SAPU has been going around doing that, asking them to be registered in STIDC. If STIDC is going to be bogged down with such enforcement, such petty matter like how many chairs made of belian are going to be sold, how many chairs made of selangan batu or tables are going to be sold, I think this STIDC would not have the time to do what this act is intended for them to do. So I urge the Honourable Minister … (Interruption)
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Just now you were saying that, SAPU has been going around furniture shops checking on this and checking on that, can you substantiate your allegation?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The complainant has come to me with the form which SAPU has asked him to fill in and he has no idea how to fill in. So at that time it is still RM1, 000 the fine. I asked him to approach SAPU and asked them to come and have a look.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Are you sure they are SAPU officers? You are trying to mislead … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It happened, it happened. I received complaints on that. We are not here in the courtroom where you have to call evidence, call witness to come here to give evidence. These are the concerns of the people and reading the act, if you have the parent act, reading the bill. Do you have the parent ordinance with you? Before debating any amendment bill, we should have the parent ordinance. Then you can look at the whole picture. What is the effect of the bill on the whole act, on the whole ordinance?
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Ahli Yang Berhormat, maybe we should, this House should give an indication how many have read the parent ordinance before debating or even before reading the amendment bill? Are we concerned?
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: It is not for you to teach?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He is seeking clarification from me. Do you want to seek further clarification from me?
Y.B Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Tuan Speaker, I am seeking clarification from the Member for Kota Sentosa. You are extending, you are amending actually the amendment because when you mentioned the definition for timber industry, you see (a) is the manufacture of timber or timber products, and (b) sale, distribution or marketing of timber only. It didn’t say timber products.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is why, my friend, read the parent ordinance. What is the definition of sale, distribution or marketing of timber? Read the parent ordinance before you debate.
Y.B Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Tuan Speaker, in the principal ordinance, it says sale, distribution and marketing of timber products but this one has nothing to do with that amendment, to that definition of timber products.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: My god.
Tuan Speaker: Okay, I make a ruling. Standing Order 34(1). Now confine the debate only to the amendments and if the amendments cover the principal ordinance, only that part and once the point is made, you move on.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes, yes. I … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: You can move on because do not open up the entire principal ordinance.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, not the entire, I am… (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: You have made your point, so you can move on, on the amendment.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It is just that the point has not sunk into the mind of the minister and once this is passed, the effect of it is going to be very far- reaching.
Tuan Speaker: You have made your point.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, I don’t think he understands my point.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, just for the information of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, SAPU is the extension of Forest Department and they are only confined to the activities in upstream. Timber industries, the upstream timber industries.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Now he says it is upstream.
Tuan Speaker: Downstream, downstream.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are concerned with downstream or upstream?
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Upstream. Ya, with regard to illegal logging and so on and nothing to do with the downstream activities.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Nothing to do with downstream? But this is only in the hansard, this is only recorded here. When the act is passed that is the effect I am telling you. That is the effect. Can the minister give an assurance that the officers will not go and force on the carpenters or even the stationery shop owners or the coffin maker? Can the minister give an assurance? And when he is no longer in this ministry, who is there to hold him? Where are we going to hold him to his words?
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, just now he mentioned that SAPU officers have been going around to inspect. Now can you name the officers who have been going around?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I don’t have the name of the officer but if this act is concerned only with upstream, so let us be known sale, distribution and marketing is not upstream, that includes downstream and this is in the amendment bill. This is in the amendment bill. Have you … (Interruption)
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Let me finish my sentence. I will let you have the chance. Do you appreciate the effect of this ordinance, of this amendment? Do you appreciate the effect of this amendment, looking at the whole act, whole ordinance and with the amendment, what is the effect it is going to give rise to? When people start complaining to us, we will have no end of trouble but this is law passed here, passed in this House. And we have to honour this law. And the ministry has to carry out their duty.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, that is actually the intention of the bill. It is to eliminate the overlapping function. The overlapping function between the Forest Department and the STIDC. For upstream activities, it is to be under Forest Department and downstream activities, it is under STIDC.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, now he is saying that he is concerned with downstream. Just now he was saying that the amendment bill is only upstream. Now he is saying that he is concerned with the downstream. STIDC … (Interruption).
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan): I am saying that SAPU is only … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, we are talking about STIDC.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan: Yes, you are mentioning, I am replying to what you said.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The STIDC is … (Interruption)
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang Bin Ali Hasan: About SAPU.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not talking about SAPU. I am talking about downstream, STIDC…(Interruption)
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah Awang bin Ali Hasan: You mentioned about SAPU.
Tuan Speaker: Alright, alright, order. You have made your point.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi Bin Haji Narawi: Tuan Speaker, I think we should not point finger in this august House.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, if I may … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Order, order, I am in charge here. Sit down.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: You don’t have to be so fierce, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Because you are shouting.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He is shouting as well.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Do not point fingers.
Tuan Speaker: Speak gently.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am and who is not speaking gently.
Tuan Speaker: So sit down, sit down.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Speak gently.
Tuan Speaker: I want order in the House.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Do not point finger at members if we are honourable enough.
Tuan Speaker: Sit down.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Haji Narawi: Tuan Speaker, we saw that the Member for Kota Sentosa pointed first.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Tuan Speaker, I think the Honourable Member must learn how to speak with … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You have no floor here. It is my floor. You have debated. It is my floor.
Tuan Speaker: You have made your point. Move to the next point.
Menteri Muda Hal Ehwal Belia, Menteri Muda Kesihatan Awam dan Menteri Muda Pelancongan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Hamden bin Haji Ahmad): Behave yourself a little bit.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: You must learn how to talk politely.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Sit down. Sit down. It is my floor. You have your chance to do it later. Tuan Speaker, I would like Tuan Speaker to make a ruling for him to withdraw the word kurang ajar. That is a very … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: I don’t know which member made it.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: They made it, I heard it.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Be man enough to stand up for what you have said. Be man enough to stand up. Who said the statement kurang ajar? Who made the statement kurang ajar? Be man enough to stand up. Stand up.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Come on Honourable Member, be honourable enough to come up and admit that you made that statement.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I am standing up here.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are the one who made the statement “kurang ajar”.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I … (Interruption) still don’t.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no are you the one?
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: You sit down when I am talking.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, this is my floor.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I am the one who, you ask me to stand up. You sit down.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I said those words because the way you are acting, you come down here you must say it with proper decorum. Jangan kurang ajar. This is an august House. (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is the word, it has to be withdrawn. I urge Tuan Speaker … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: He said “Jangan”.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: I am not accusing of … (Interruption)
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no, he said “kurang ajar”, he shouted “kurang ajar”.
Tuan Speaker: No, no he is clarifying it. Jangan kurang ajar.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Jangan kurang ajar, that’s what I said.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay.
Tuan Speaker: Don’t be rude, I said don’t be rude.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: So, if people talk to you, jangan kurang ajar.
Tuan Speaker: So, don’t be rude. So the statement made is don’t be rude. So be polite.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay, so that means in future we can use the word “jangan kurang ajar”, Okay. Fine. Fair enough, if that is the ruling we will stick by the ruling, “jangan kurang ajar”.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I think that must be right. That must be put on record in the hansard. From now onwards, “jangan kurang ajar”.
Tuan Speaker: Ya.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Narawi: Tuan Speaker, satu lagi (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Let the Member for … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no. You ask permission first.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Julaihi bin Narawi: Tuan Speaker, I would like to draw the attention to Standing Order 33(b) sebab saya ingin mencadangkan supaya Ahli Yang Berhormat perlu belajar bercakap dengan sopan santun. Ini budaya orang Malaysia dan perlu juga tidak mengamalkan “finger pointing at anybody in this august House”. That should be the practice (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, if I may have the floor here just for a few seconds. Pointing fingers? I thought I saw somebody who is supposedly to be in control, in charge of this august House, pointing fingers and Ahli Yang Berhormat, you are talking about who?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Jangan kurang ajar.
Tuan Speaker: Member for Bukit Assek, I have to point at you because there are so many of you down there okay?
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, you said, you were angry. Do not tell me that you are the only one who is angry. If everybody who can be angry … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: The Member for Kota Sentosa was shouting at the top of his voice all the time. There is no need to shout. I have to shout louder to keep him down. If I have a small voice I cannot be heard.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Yes.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: At that moment in time, you were infact shouting at me, not at Kota Sentosa … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Yes, sit down, sit down. You speak properly Member for Kota Sentosa.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, I was speaking properly … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: No need to shout at the top of your voice and you know. Speak properly, in court you don’t shout, speak like this?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I speak properly like that, yes.
Tuan Speaker: In court, you don’t speak like this. If you keep on shouting and the Members object, I have to stop you.
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is the volume of my voice.
Tuan Speaker: Then I have to stop you.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is the volume of my voice. What is the problem? For what?
Tuan Speaker: Then I have to stop you. I have to stop you, if you keep on shouting and the Members all object. It’s no more the substance of the debate.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, I am speaking slowly. I do not direct only. I was debating on this bill, debating on the interpretation, the definition section.
Tuan Speaker: No need to shout at the Honourable Minister.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He was, he was pointing, shouting at me … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: You are the one shouting.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, this is reciprocal. It’s both ways.
Tuan Speaker: You sit down, okay.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No.
Tuan Speaker: Any other Member who wishes to speak?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, I have not finish.
Tuan Speaker: No, I have the power. You stop now. Any other Member?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under what Section?
Tuan Speaker: Any other Member?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Under what order? May I know?
Tuan Speaker: Under 32 (11), if the speaker is of the opinion that any motion or amendment or continues the debate thereon is calculated to give rise to breaches of this Standing Order, he may disallow the motion or the debate and terminate the debate.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Tuan Speaker, it is not, I am not … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: You have made your point. I am giving you chance to move to another point … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright, I will move … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Because if you don’t, I will stop you.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Okay, I will move to another point.
Tuan Speaker: Ah, move to another point.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will move to another point.
Tuan Speaker: Move to another point. You have made your point. Okay, Member for Bukit Assek?
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am not speaking yet. (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: I am telling you. If one member from the opposition is speaking, point of information is from the other side. If all of you interrupt on point of information that means five persons are speaking at the same time. I am making that ruling. Okay? I want one person to speak at a time. Not you, on point of order and that make five persons from this side. Otherwise it’s all chaotic.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, I was seeking clarification and Member for Kota Sentosa gave me the floor. What’s wrong with that?
Tuan Speaker: Clarification I would welcome from the other side but if I see there is a definite tactic, whereby four or five persons are speaking from this side at the same time, I am going to rule one at a time.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Exactly, I have no qualms about Tuan Speaker making a ruling one at a time. Only one speaker, one person can speak on the floor that is for sure … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: So, let him speak first, if you want to speak on the ordinance, I will give you chance. Okay, you move on. Member for Kota Sentosa.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you Tuan Speaker. At present, there are about, I was informed that there are about 700 sawmills not registered with STIDC. And with the coming into force of this ordinance, they will be slapped with heavy penalty, RM300,000. Such penalty would literally close or literally force some or many of the sawmill operators to close shop and the employees affected will have no jobs. Therefore, having passed this law, if we were to target at the upstream or to curb illegal logging which of course, we oppose. We do not subscribe to illegal logging if Ahli Yang Berhormat Menteri just now have asked me about my view of illegal logging. We do not encourage illegal logging. That is the law, we should not log illegally and furthermore, there are a lot of environmental effects but when we enforce the law, given the harsh (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Excuse me, can I bring your point of clarification?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Sure.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): You were saying that you were against illegal logging. You were also saying that you were not encouraging illegal logging. What are your proposals to curb these activities?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Enforce the law, simple as that. Enforce the law.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y. B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Di): (Inaudible) Actually, we are enforcing the law but you are against it.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not against enforcing illegal logging but I am saying that the Act, the amendment bill has too far reaching an effect even go down right to the carpenter.
Tuan Speaker: You have spoken more than half an hour. How much longer do you have to go?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, they are seeking clarification. Should I give or should I not?
Tuan Speaker: How much longer do you have to go?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, just one more point.
Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification.
Tuan Speaker: Sure.
Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): He said that, the Kota Sentosa said that 700 sawmills which are not licensed. Don’t you think that these sawmills are illegal?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Those are not licensed because previously there is no enforcement. Previously there is no requirement or if there is a requirement the penalty is too … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Alright Tuan Speaker … (Interruption)
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, you ask a question, you hear my answer. So now you are enforcing, we are passing, making it a heavier sentence but have a heart for the people. Before we enforce the law or before even, to put it into effect, I hope the Ministry can send people out, our officers out to help them to do registration. To help a lot of them, its not that they intentionally, just that they don’t know the know how of how to register. I believe to register in STIDC; the procedure is not very difficult as long as you comply with certain criteria. Help these entrepreneurs.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I am sorry as if Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa seems not to understand what the intention of the bill is.
Tuan Speaker: What is your intention?
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): The intention of the bill is to simplify all things and to make things very simple and he is contradicting himself. He is all out for illegal activities and there you are. He mentioned about 700 which is illegal, which is not licensed and now the bill is trying to provide avenues for them so that they can be licensed properly.
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I know once we passed, the intention is to have them registered to be licensed but there are still, there will be some entrepreneur or sawmill operators who do not know. Of course, ignorance of the law is not an excuse but as a Minister, as a Ministry, I think we should help, help to go, to approach to these people rather than to go there and slap them with a fine, RM300,000, you pay or I fine you.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Tuan Speaker, for the information, may I … (Interruption)
Y. B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Who is that?
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): It’s me. You may be new as a member to this august House. We have been here for quite some time practicing as a wakil rakyat and it is always our duty to help our constituents to help them fill whatever forms that need to be filled for their business or personal matters and it is not a big deal. If any of your constituents who you do not want to help, ask them to come and see me. I will help them to fill the forms.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will be much obliged if you can give me your handphone so that I can give it to them.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): 019-8861919, my personal handphone and office number is 313131 or 312121. You are welcome. You are also welcome to my office and I help you to fill the forms. I will show you how to fill the forms so that you can teach other people how to fill the forms okay. I will teach you first.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not in the industry of timber logging but this is the attitude we are encouraging. I have no qualms against that. I am not objecting to that but the same attitude should filter down to all levels of officers so that the officers … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Sure they are its just that you are not aware of it. You should be more observant … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You are not aware you have to ask permission from me first.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): Never mind, cincailah, okay, I have made my point.
Tuan Speaker: I think you better make your concluding remarks. You have made your point.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright, I have made my point and in conclusion, I would urge the Ministry to have a review of this Act, this amendment bill again so that people will not be confused, so that the enforcement units will not be armed with excessive power which is not intended to be given to them so that we can truly make STIDC do what they are supposed to do, to further the development of the logging business.
Thank you, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? Member for Pelawan?
Y. B. Encik Vincent Goh Chung Siong: Thank you Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker, I rise in support of the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006. The Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation was set up primarily to assist in the development of the timber industry in Sarawak. Under the steering leadership and guidance of the Right Honourable Chief Minister of Sarawak, STIDC has proven itself to be a relevant, proactive and effective organization.
I am confident that this bill will not only make various terms more specific but also broaden the scope covered by STIDC in recognition of its expanding role in adoption to current needs. The introduction of a new Part 2(a) puts the onus on anyone who wish to establish, manage or operate any plants, factory or premises for carrying on any timber industry called for to register with STIDC. It is a timely move. It will certainly go a long way in further regulating the industry for the common good of the state and the people.
With this legislation and the provision to impose heavy fines on those who break the law, Sarawak’s reputation as a state that practice sound and sustainable forest management should be further enhanced.
Here, I would like to add in a word of caution for those who are enforcing this and especially the imposing of heavy fines to be on their toes at all time and it allows the authority concern to impose a fine ranging from between RM100,000 to half a million ringgit. We must be sure that those whom we are going after are those that truly deserved to be punished for treating our law with impunity. When we are totally thorough in our investigation and action we can be assured that no one will be victimized and those seeking to push the envelope will learn dearly. With the full might of the law on our side I am confident that any acts which can be regarded as robbing the people and the state of its wealth can and will be dealt with efficiently.
Tuan Speaker, please allow me to share my concern about matters that are related to the well-being and sustainable development of our forest resources. The Sarawak Government has long been encouraging, supporting and guiding the down stream activities of the timber industry. It is time now to put equal if not focus on up stream activities which is centered on reforestation or tree planting. It has come to my attention that there are numerous areas whereby we should further enhance in our quest to create greater forest coverage. There is a need for more regulation applicable especially to tree planting. From a more stringent enforcement to protecting, nurturing trees in a planted area from in culture and from dealing with the matters of native customary land to the issue of land lease, I am confident that if we were to fine tune all these, there will be even greater success in tree planting on top of the impressive record we have chalked up.
Those seriously engaging in tree planting should be fully protected from loggers who encroached into their area for obvious reason and of course in the matter of compensation for the NCR lands there must a concerted effort by the relevant agency to provide tree planting company with the most accurate information on where this imaginary or claims line are drawn. This will serve to reduce any quarrel between the NCR landowners and tree planting companies. When such companies are given the rights and accurate information regularly and speedily and with the strong support of the enforcement agency we can be assured that cases of brokerage or criminal intimidation can become rare occurrence.
On the 60-year land lease for tree planting Tuan Speaker, perhaps the Ministry concern can consider certain extension to further spur this up stream industry. With a longer time frame more party will be interested to engage on a greater scale tree planting activities and in the manner of land rent there is room for the Ministry concern to consider exemption other than its current 60 years in case where the area is especially hilly or has a sizeable amount of NCR lands. In such a case, there may be reason to consider imposing land rent on the netted plantable area instead of the gross area given. It is certainly hope that the authority concern and especially the officers on the ground in relation to the up stream activities of tree planting seek to work closely with the operator of tree planting areas. In the absence of such cooperation, mutual respect and understanding the state government’s noble vision and wise action in spurring tree planting may face more than just a few hiccups.
Tuan Speaker, with this few words I would like to conclude my pledging, my support again for the STIDC’s amendment bill 2006. Thank you.
Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Batu Lintang.
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Tuan Speaker, I had been in the last two days try to speak in this august House and now I have the opportunity. I thank Tuan Speaker in giving me this opportunity. Tuan Speaker, when we are to pass the law, the most important thing is that we see that the law is what you call, be able to protect our state’s property but at the same time we did see that the rights of the people and the liberties of the people should not be arbitrarily transgressed. I am very much concern here Tuan Speaker about section 5(c) of the bill. Section 5(c) of the bill states that the registrar may with the approval of the General Manager cancel the registration of any person if he has breached any of the terms and conditions stipulated in the certificate of registration. Here, I will respectfully say that this is quite a very far-reaching effect and a wide power on the registrar. Before such a cancellation be made I will respectfully suggest that this part of the proviso should include before a cancellation be made that the person concern who is suspected to have offended or breach the condition must be given an explanation. I think that is most important. The effect is that because a license has the effect of the right to his livelihood. What would happen if he is innocent that the breach of the license was not cause by him? Then I would respectfully suggest that we are not doing justice in this matter.
Again, Tuan Speaker, what I would say here is that a clause must be included that the person should be given a grace period to make an explanation. May be ten days or fourteen days to be forwarded to the registrar and if the explanation is not satisfactory, only then action be taken to revoke the license. But again, Tuan Speaker again on 5(c)(b) offences relating to fraud, corruption and dishonesty. This is a very wide clause which could means any type of fraud, any type of corruption and dishonesty. Are we willing to cancel license of this nature if a person involve in corruption or bribering a policeman on the road then we can cancel his license. I think it should not be justified. So, the law must be clear, it must be the relation only with timber industries. It must be corruption or bribery concern with the timber industries. Nothing else more than that. We cannot make the law so wide enough to catch everybody, every licensees. This in turn I feel Tuan Speaker that the Minister hopefully will look into the matter. Fraud again is also wide here. How about company directors or other type of industries or businesses? This also I think we need to take into deep consideration.
I hope this august House will also to look into the element of dishonesty, what type of dishonesty is that? There are a lot of things under the penal code and many other laws concern about dishonesty. We have to look into it very very carefully before this bill be passed. As my colleague said just now, the definition is very important of any bill because we will have problems later on when person be arrested and charge in court unnecessarily, definitely he will go to defend himself in the court of law. This will create a lot of dissatisfactions among the licensees and then the rakyat will not be happy with us. What the Honourable Member of Kota Sentosa has said just now, the definition of timber products … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: I think that point had been covered, Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Batu Lintang so you can move on. Don’t repeat.
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Yes, Tuan Speaker. I am just supporting the views of the Member for Kota Sentosa … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Yes, you can say that but move on.
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Yes, so what I hope in this august House we are Members of the Honourable House to make legislations but I pray that no pin pointing of fingers at each other unnecessarily because it would unnecessarily provoke people to lose temper. I beg Tuan Speaker, that if my opinion is not in line or in tune with some Members of this august House, please excuse me. Thank you very much.
Menteri Muda Teknologi Maklumat dan Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastuktur dan Perhubungan (Tuan Haji Bolhassan bin Haji Di): For or against the bill?
Tuan Speaker: The Minister is asking you, are you supporting or against the bill?
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Pardon me?
Tuan Speaker: Are you supporting or are you against the bill?
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: I am objecting to the bill because of far-reaching effect…
Tuan Speaker: So you oppose the bill?
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Yes.
Tuan Speaker: Ok, any other Members? We have a lunch break to enable the Minister to wind up and sitting resumes at 2:00 p.m.
(Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 12:25 tengahari)
(Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 2:18 petang)
[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan mesyuarat]
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tanjung Datu.
Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan bin Haji Satem: Tuan Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to participate in this debate. In this debate on the STIDC amendment, I will try if, as far as I can, to separate the wood from the trees in this matter. It is all I believe a matter of interpretation. The Honourable Member for Sentosa said, that if this amendments are approved and become law then it shall apply to people selling wooden pencils, shoes with wood materials and so on. So that it will apply to all parties that have dealing with timber or timber products. I think that is his interpretation and I believe it is a wrong interpretation and we cannot accept that interpretation. (Applause).
Surely in our attempt to supervise and control the timber industry we do not wish to widen the net so far as to affect people who have no consequence with regard to our regulating the timber processing industry. It does not apply to people dealing with finished product. It only applies to people who are in the process of processing timber. It is made clear I believe in the definition of timber industry. It says here timber industry means any business or activity relating to the manufacture of timber or timber products that is the first part. And where it refers to the sale, distribution and marketing, it stops short of saying ‘timber’ and ‘timber products’, it just says of ‘timber’, it does not go further or ‘timber product’ as in the first limb of the amendment. So it applies to manufacturers, yes, it applies to manufacturer dealing with timber, but it does not apply to the people who sell, distribute the finished products. I think that is quite clear in the amendment. So, all these shouting, all these emphasis here and emphasis there has no consequences, it just boils down to the question of interpretation. And I believe the people who will enforce these regulations, will be reasonable enough not to include this interpretation, even if, even if, the Member for Kota Sentosa interpretation is correct, surely as a matter of policy, the enforcing authority will not include this group of people dealing with timber products. So, I hope that is very clear.
The second point I wish to make is sometime we are confused about why is it that we require people in the business of timber processing to register themselves. Why is it some people are afraid to register themselves. We wish the timber industry to be run on legal proper lines. If you are really an honest manufacturer of timber products, I don’t think you will be afraid to register yourself. If you are a legal, straightforward, honest sawmill operator, why are you afraid to register yourself? You might be afraid because once you register, the government will know where you are, what you are, what you are doing, or what you are not doing. So, honest people will not be afraid of this. Only those who have something to hide of something will be afraid. So, he mentioned 700 unregistered sawmills, I don’t know, that is his figurelah. I have not carried out survey of how many sawmills there are. But surely he does not defend them for not registering their business. The reason why we need, we require them to be registered, so that they will be operating in a proper place with proper processes and using raw material from proper and legal sources. That is the purpose of registration and giving STIDC regulatory power. Is there something wrong with that? I don’t think there is something wrong with the government trying to put the timber industry on a proper basis. And it is a matter of regret that they refused to support this amendment. At the same time they say they are against illegal logging, but when we try to put a stop to it, they say don’t do that. We do not support your amendment. When we try to make it more effective, we do not support your proposed amendment. You can support it with reservation, yes, with your suggestion, yes, but don’t oppose the principle idea. That is what we might not be clear off at this stage. Yes, I give way.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Thank you. I think Ahli Yang Berhormat for Tanjung Datu is confused as to our stand, we have already made the stand very clear that we opposed to the illegal logging. Just that the way to do it, it may be too harsh and we appeal to the government to soften in the implementation and enforcement. We, on principle we agreed totally to curb, but, just that, just that, just that, just that to help them, those who do not intentionally breach the act. But, due to ignorant of the law, help them to do their registration first. So, what is your opinion on that?
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): That you are now supporting the amendment to this bill?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am not supporting the act because it is too widely worded. We would like to have it amended so that to make the intention of the legislator more clearly, so that there will not be any ambiguity in the enforcement.
Y.B. Dato Sri Haji Adenan bin Haji Satem: It is common practice, I believe with government, especially with new legislation to introduce the legislation to this industry to inform them about it, to give notice to them and even to hold seminars with industry, it is quite a common practice before the law is actually implemented. And in many cases, before prosecution or before seizure, notice is given as an administrative measure, so that the industry is aware of the presence of this law. That is the common practice, we just don’t go in there, pick up any Tom, Dick and Harry and prosecute him. We give him a chance first, and that I believe is common practice especially with new law. That is a … any more interruption. No more? (Applause)
Now, that is the purpose of registration and I hope they do not defend those people who refused to register. We have a problem in this state of illegal felling of timber or people encouraging the movement of process timber illegally and so on. Well, we have to solve that problem, I am sure the opposition can see that, instead of just saying, this, that and the other matter which is not relevant to the issue in hand. Now for these reasons and for the reasons given the Barisan Nasional Members of this Dewan, I am very happy except, perhaps, in the administration of the new law. On the administration of the new law, we will use, the government will use its discretion to, as a matter of public policy to enforce this and not yet enforce that. There are some stages of enforcement, give them notice or seminars, take the industry into our confidence and those who are honest will give a full cooperation. So that we will prevent the occurrence of this thing before it actually occurs. And with those comments, I fully support the amendment.
Tuan Speaker: Any other Members wishes to speak. I call upon Honourable Minister to wind up.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hassan): Tuan Speaker, saya ingin mengambil kesempatan ini untuk mengucapkan berbanyak-banyak terima kasih kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat kerana telah membahas Rang Undang-Undang Perbadanan Kemajuan Perusahaan Kayu Sarawak (Pindaan) 2006 ini sebentar tadi khususnya Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak, Sebuyau, Palawan dan Tanjung Datu yang telah memberi sokongan yang padu terhadap pindaan Rang Undang-Undang ini.
Saya ingin mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tanjung Datu yang sebenarnya telahpun menyentuh mengenai dengan kekeliruan yang timbul seperti yang dibangkitkan oleh Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa.
Tuan Speaker, untuk makluman dewan yang mulia ini, pindaan kepada ordinan PUSAKA ini bertujuan untuk memastikan bahawa industri perkayuan memperolehi bekalan kayu atau bahan mentah dari sumber yang sah. Di samping itu, ia juga adalah untuk memastikan bahawa kilang atau syarikat tersebut terletak di kawasan yang dikhas untuk industri perkayuan. Dengan itu, aktiviti-aktiviti industri ini tidak menimbulkan masalah pencemaran alam sekitar dan gangguan sosial. Semua inisiatif ini ialah untuk memastikan supaya industri perkayuan negeri berkembang secara teratur, terkawal dan efektif dan menyumbang kepada perkembangan ekonomi yang berterusan.
Untuk makluman dewan yang mulia ini, mana-mana aktiviti yang melibatkan pemprosesan, perusahaan dan pengeluaran kayu serta produk kayu adalah dibawah bidang kuasa PUSAKA. Untuk syarikat-syarikat yang menghasilkan produk kayu jadual satu of the STIDC Registration Regulation 1999 telah menyenaraikan secara terperinci jenis-jenis produk kayu yang perlu berdaftar dengan Pusaka.
Produk kayu yang disenaraikan dibawah jadual satu tidak merangkumi penjualan pensel atau kasut kayu seperti yang dinyatakan oleh ahli Yang Berhormat Kota Sentosa. Menyentuh tentang aspek penguatkuasaan, dibawah peruntukan 5(c) saya ingin memberi jaminan bahawa kementerian dan Pusaka akan memastikan penguatkuasaan undang-undang akan dilaksanakan dengan adil dan saksama.
Untuk makluman Dewan yang mulia ini, PUSAKA tidak akan mencampuri urusan criminal offences of fraud, kes rasuah ataupun perbuatan tidak amanah yang tiada kaitan langsung dengan operasi dan fungsi PUSAKA.
PUSAKA telah dan sedang mengambil tindakan untuk menggalakkan pendaftaran syarikat-syarikat dan pengusaha kayu di Negeri Sarawak. Antaranya ialah dengan menjalankan kempen bertemu pelanggan melalui lawatan-lawatan ke premis syarikat-syarikat berkenaan dari semasa ke semasa. Usaha ini akan diteruskan dengan tenaga kerja yang sedia ada di Pusaka.
Saya juga ingin memberi jaminan kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Batu Lintang bahawa dalam melaksanakan Rang Undang-Undang ini PUSAKA akan memberi penerangan berkenaan dengan pindaan Ordinan PUSAKA. Ini juga sekaligus akan mengelak sebarang kekeliruan dari segi bidang kuasa Jabatan Hutan dan Pusaka.
Tuan Speaker, dengan lulusnya rang undang-undang ini, saya percaya tiada lagi pertindihan kuasa dan tanggungjawab di antara PUSAKA dan Jabatan Hutan. Ini juga akan menjawab kebimbangan Ahli Yang Berhormat Kota Sentosa berkenaan dengan siapa membuat pemeriksaan di kedai perabot kerana jelas ianya adalah dibawah bidang kuasa bagi PUSAKA.
Tuan Speaker, saya memohon agar rang undang-undang ini diluluskan.
Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Can an assurance be given by the Menteri that the implementation enforcement of this fact will not be directed to a furniture shops or some shops,grocery shops that sells some articles made of timber, manufactured from timber because the intention is directed at the kilang and the plant. So can the Minister give the assurance that in this house that enforcement were made on this section. This section does not apply to furniture shops.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hassan): Tuan Speaker, kita akan melaksanakan undang-undang ini dengan sebaik-baiknya dan kita juga prihatin tentang bimbingan dan keperluan. Apa yang kita nak tekankan ialah untuk memastikan industri ini berkembang dengan baik dan bagi mereka yang terlibat, mereka dikehendaki berdaftar supaya kita dapat menentukan bahawa ianya adalah menggunakan bahan-bahan yang telahpun diambil daripada sumber-sumber yang sah dan tumpuan kita ialah bagi syarikat-syarikat yang terlibat dalam pemprosesan. Ini bukan bererti yang menjual pensel pun terpaksa didaftar semuanya. Tumpuan kita ialah bagi syarikat-syarikat yang terlibat dalam pemerosesan itu supaya ianya didaftar. Ini untuk mempastikan bahawa apa juga bantuan dapat diberi kepada mereka. Ini untuk kebaikan mereka. Terima kasih. Rang undang-undang ini diluluskan.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Ahli Yang Berhormat the Dewan will now resolve into the Committee of the Whole House to consider the bill which stand committed to the Committee.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE
[Tuan Pengerusi mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan shall now consider the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006.
Clauses 1- 4
Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that Clauses 1 to 4 be ordered to stand part of the bill.
Question put and agreed to
Clauses 1 " 4 stand part of the bill
Enacting Clause and Title
Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan resumes.
HOUSE RESUMED
[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report that Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 has been considered by the Committee of the Whole House and agreed to without amendment.
RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN "
BACAAN KALI YANG KETIGA
SARAWAK TIMBER INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question before the Dewan is that the Sarawak Timber Industry Development Corporation (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass.
Question put and agreed to
Bill read a third time and passed
RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN "
BACAAN KALI KEDUA
WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, saya memohon untuk mengusulkan rang undang-undang untuk meminda Ordinan Air untuk dibaca buat kali kedua.
Tuan Speaker, Ordinan Air 1994 ialah satu undang-undang prinsipal negeri yang mengawal selia pemeliharaan, perlindungan, pembangunan dan pengurusan sumber air di negeri ini serta pembekalan dan pembahagian air untuk kegunaan domestik, komersial dan industri dan untuk mengawal selia dan mentadbir pihak berkuasa pembekalan air seperti Lembaga Air Kuching, Lembaga Air Sibu, Jabatan Kerja Raya dan syarikat statutory pembekalan air seperti LAKU.
Tuan Speaker, the water supply authorities have recently studied the Ordinance and the Water Supply Regulation 1995. They made various proposals to my Ministry to strengthen the provision there all in order to address and deal with the following problems:
(a) Unlawful or unauthorized connection of supply pipes to water works to tap or obtain supply illegally causing severe loss of revenues to the water supply authorities ;
(b) Deterring consumers from owing charges for water supplied to them and to assist in the recovery of such debts:
(c) Rampant incidence of theft or illegal removal of water meters resulting in financial losses to the water supply authorities. What in terms of revenue water loss when the meters was stolen or taken away and to purchase new meters for reinstallation to make sure supply of water to the affected consumers.
Tuan Speaker, tap water is on the increase. It is proposed that a specific provision be included in the ordinance to deter these unlawful activities by unscrupulous people. Penalties will be increased with different scale for those who are unlawfully connect water supply for domestic use, commercial use and industrial use.
The two later categories attract higher penalties as the volume of water are unlawfully tapped for commercial and industrial consumption is likely to be much-much higher than for domestic use. The unlawful connection of water supply may not be done by the errand consumer himself or alone but with the assistance of those who have the technical skills to do it such as a pipe fitter hence the amendments proposed that a pipe fitter may be have guilty of aiding and abetting the illegal connection and if he is a licensed fitter upon conviction, the court may order the cancellation or suspension of his license. These measures are designed to eliminate the current problem of unlawful connection of water supply and loss of revenue suffered by the Water Supply Authorities.
Tuan Speaker, every consumer should pay for the water supplied to and consumed by them. But the amount of unpaid charges owed by consumers to Water Supply Authorities are substantial. To date, the amount of arrears of water charges exceed RM24 million. To address this problem, it is proposed to adopt two-pronged approach:-
(a) To make an applicant for water supply pay whatever charges and arrears or owing for water previously supplied to the premises in respect of which the applicant seeks supply,
(b) To make an applicant for water supply pay whatever outstanding charges due and payable by him to any water supply authorities in respect of water supplied to other premises currently or previously owned, occupied or used by him. This would facilitate the recovery of his arrears or payment for water supplied to him previously for premises owned, occupied and used by him.
Record shows that some errand consumers especially tenants move from place to place and owed water charges for each of their place which he rented or stayed or used for accommodation or business which may have failed. This amendment, it is envisaged to put a stop to this malpractice.
Tuan Speaker, the current phenomena of theft for metal articles like manhole covers etc. also hit the Water Supply Authorities in Sarawak. Currently, the record of the Kuching Water Board, Sibu Water Board and LAKU show that the theft of water meters is on the increase and unless the law is strengthen and enforcement of the law is vigorously carried out, this trend of theft of water meters would continue to be on the rise.
Tuan Speaker, it is proposed that the Ordinance be amended to make provision for a new offence to cover the unlawful or unauthorised removal or taking away of water meters or being found in possession of water meter which does not belong to him or to which he was not entitled to possess. The proposed amendment seeks to beef up the enforcement system and machinery of the water supply authority and this proposed amendments are found in Clause 15 to seek to enact new Section 47(a), 47(b), 47(c), 47(d), 47(e) and 47(f) of the Ordinance.
Tuan Speaker, the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 before this august House seeks to achieve the objectives explained herein above so as to resolve or contain the problems I have already highlighted. The explanatory statement to the bill explain the effect and legal implication of the various clauses in the bill. This bill when pass by the Dewan Undangan Negeri will come into force on the date to be determined by the Minister of Public Utilities. It is envisaged that this proposed new law will be enforced only after certain auxiliary or related amendments are made with the concurrence of Majlis, the Water Supply Regulations, 1995 and the new rule for compounding of offences are made.
These amendments to the said regulation in the new compounding rule would only be passed after the amendments proposed in the bill are passed.
Tuan Speaker, saya mohon agar semua Ahli Yang Berhormat dapat memberikan sokongan padu terhadap Rang Undang-Undang Air (Pindaan) 2006. Saya memohon untuk mengusulkan.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I beg to second.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question is that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a second time. Any Honourable Member going to speak? Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Saribas.
Y.B Dr Haji Wahbi Haji Junaidi: Tuan Speaker, saya bangun menyokong rang undang-undang pindaan, Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 yang baru sahaja dibentangkan oleh Yang Berhormat Menteri, Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam.
Pada Laporan Audit Negara tahun 2003, kita telah menemukan bahawa pihak berkuasa bekalan air Negeri Sarawak telah kehilangan air dengan nilai berjumlah RM4.2 juta. Kehilangan air ini termasuklah disebabkan kecurian, paip yang pecah, ketirisan dan lain-lain lagi dan samada pecah itu sengaja dengan paip yang lama atau disebabkan sesuatu pembinaan di sesuatu tempat. Maka pada tahun 2005, Jawatankuasa Akaun Awam Dewan Undangan Negeri, di mana pada ketika itu diketuai oleh saya sebagai Pengerusi Jawatankuasa telah mengesyorkan kepada Kementerian Kemudahan Awam untuk berbuat sesuatu kerana kehilangan RM4.2 juta ini adalah satu kehilangan yang besar dan mengurangkan satu pendapatan negeri kita. Maka ini saya amat bersyukur dan berterima kasih kepada Kementerian Kemudahan Awam kerana telah melakukan sesuatu dengan membuat pindaan kepada Ordinan Bekalan Air ini supaya tindakan-tindakan dapat dibuat kepada mereka yang bertanggungjawab ke atas kecurian air ini.
Pada tahun 2005, telah diberitahu oleh pihak berkenaan bahawa kehilangan air daripada kecurian ini ialah dengan nilai RM2.659 juta atau kira-kira 5% daripada jumlah non-revenue water dan angka ini tentu sekali juga begitu banyak sekali dan perlu menjadi satu tanggungjawab kita untuk berbuat sesuatu. Di samping untuk melaksanakan undang-undang ini, kita juga telah mengesyorkan supaya pihak kementerian dengan pegawai-pegawainya sentiasa memantau dengan lebih kerap tempat-tempat yang mana kita terdapat kehilangan air seperti pecahnya paip yang telah lama dan paip-paip yang sentiasa ketirisan ini supaya paip-paip yang lama itu dapat diganti dengan paip baru supaya kehilangan ini tidak akan menjejaskan pendapatan ataupun tidak menjejaskan pembekalan air negeri kita.
Tuan Speaker, masalah kehilangan meter ini juga telah menjadi satu isu sekarang ini. Kita tidak tahu apakah kehilangan meter itu merupakan satu cara untuk pihak pencuri mengambil air daripada bekalan air daripada bekalan main paip itu. Contohnya, pada tahun 2005 ini, pada first half of 2006, pada pertengahan 2006, Lembaga Air Sibu mengalami kehilangan 120 pipe water meter , Lembaga Air Kuching sebanyak 150 water meter. Walaupun dari segi kos hanya dalam lingkungan RM25,000 setahun tetapi dari segi lain pula terdapat kesusahan yang dialami oleh para pengguna dan pihak berkuasa bekalan air juga. Ini menyebabkan gangguan bekalan air, gangguan tekanan air dan kos-kos tambahan untuk pemasangan semula dan sebagainya.
Tuan Speaker, itu sajalah komen saya tentang undang-undang ini dan saya menyokong penuh dengan pindaan Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kidurong.
Y.B Encik Chiew Chiu Sing: Tuan Speaker, I rise to debate on the bill called the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. We just make a few observations.
Clause 2 of the Bill seeks to amend Section 29 of the Principle Ordinance by inserting a new paragraph (d). I can’t understand the philosophy behind this amendment. The Water Supply Authority should recognize the user who is an individual and not the premises which cannot consume water.
Tuan Speaker, what if the premise was occupied by some one else before? And with the passage of this bill does it mean that another occupier or buyer will have to pay fully for the water bill of another person who had occupied premise before. In respect of the new Section 29(3)(d)(ii), there may be many reasons as to why people are not paying the water bill, many times the consumer found that the amount is not reasonable due to some leakage some where and if it is recorded and the leakage is after the meter than the consumer is asked to pay.
But the consumer him or herself may not even know about the leakage until the bill comes and the amount would be unreasonably much to pay and when there is no waiving of the charge or a discount for a mistake which one never really intends to make or even know about, that is when arrears occur, that is why then it is better just to solve the problem than to pass law and demand for payment highly handedly like this Bill.
Arrears could be caused by consumer not willing to pay a sudden high bill caused by leakage. The Water Supply Authority can educate the consumers by organizing campaign or sending out leaflets to them every now and then so that it can safe the leakage.
Sometimes the consumer get very frustrated because of the poor services as being provided by the Water Supply Authority, as sometimes you get yellowish water supply in the pipe, or water interruptions when you are not aware of while you are in the middle of cooking, or low water pressure during certain period of the day. The Water Supply Authority really cares about your comfort and welfare, they could have put in the tank nearby the main supply line to supplement water supply during low pressure period or other ways to solve the water pressure problem so that everybody in the housing estate along the road or the housing flat area would have plenty of good water supply or they could just be frustrated by so many trenches on the road surface left behind by the water works people when they dug up the road for pipe crossing but never put back properly.
Tuan Speaker, water supply authority could also designate more places for bill payments so as to make the payment of bills easier. What about paying through the internet, especially when so much is talked about the development of ICT in Sarawak, when will that be operational so as to enhance the payment of bill and minimize the problem of collection.
Good customer service and good customer satisfaction will get the consumer to come back, and pay promptly.
How about arrears that are more than three years old with the passage of this bill would the water supply authority still be able to collect the money and if not then why bother writing a bill like this as it really does not actually solve the whole problem.
The whole Clause 2 here, deal with money owed to the water supply authority. In businesses, goods are sold and money are owed everyday and yet they survived and the business grows, as that is just part of the thing of doing business, Tuan Speaker. The water supply authority can learn from businesses, work like an business entity and especially learn how they collect money owed to them.
Tuan Speaker, touching on Clause 3 of the Bill introduces a new Section 29A, into the ordinance, by this clause, any person who connects or permits or causes to be connected, a supply pipe to any water works so as to enable water to be supplied to premises owned or occupied or used by him, in contravention of Section 29(1) or (3) commits an offence.
Tuan Speaker, what if there is a leakage before the meter and the event had been reported to the water supply authority but the water supply authority had not come and had unreasonably delayed or refused to do the repair works and at the mean time the consumer is in urgent need for water supply, should he or she be punished for connecting or reconnecting the water supply from another supply pipe which is near by. After all he has informed the authority concerned and has no water for his daily needs.
Why should it be unlawful for the people of the shack housing or squatters area to connect pipe for their use. If connecting the water for his use is unlawful, then it is the water supply authority that has made them unlawful because you all do not want to supply them the pipe water even though they have begged and begged you for it.
They are asking you for pipe water so that they do not have to do their washing in the streams nearby, where up the stream some people or other activities on the nearby land, had dirtied the water while down streams people do their washing pretending not to see the dirty things that are coming and floating down the stream.
They are asking you for pipe water so that their children could bath in the home like all of our children and do not have to bath in these streams or the stagnant pond near by as where else can they go to do their bath.
They are asking you for pipe water so that the husbands after a hard days work do not have to carry a full tank of water over his shoulder for the cooking needs of the house.
That is why I have been saying that we should let these our fellow brothers and sisters who had come from the rural area to look for a living and who hardly have any money to have pipe water supply. Accept their applications which they have sent in for so long so that they are not made to be unlawful, let us make them lawful, after all what they need is just water, the source of life. It is already hard enough for them to come down to town looking for a living and why make it harder for them by not allowing them to have water. I do not know how sometimes we could be so unkind as even to deny our fellow countrymen of water the basic needs of life.
Tuan Speaker, the new Subsection 34(2), provides in giving of notice, but the provision does not state clearly the length of the notice. It could be abused. For example, to require the breach to rectify within certain hours, only, a task that would be impossible or unreasonable to perform.
Tuan Speaker, Clause 6 of the Bills 60 addition of a new 36A, concerning a special powers during the emergency. People, our people should be the ultimate consideration in any emergency. We must make sure that the people are protected first during emergency time and that they have water to use at all time.
This special power should not be used to prohibit or restrict the use of water in the residential or shops so that big industrial water user can have water to use while they don’t. In another words, just so that the industry must make the money never mind our people, let them go on with no water or tighten their use of water, that would be an abuse of use in this section.
Tuan Speaker, I remember a few years ago in Bintulu, there was a water shortage as the weather was very dry. As one of the chemical plants have to use so much water daily, as a result, the Bintulu people was much restricted in their water supply. While the chemical plant enjoy full used of unlimited water supply so that they can go on operating.
Tuan Speaker, the new subsection 36A(1)(b)(iii), gives the Minister power to impose in any specific area or throughout the state any other conditions as the Minister may think fit with due respect to our Yang Berhormat Minister this is like giving the Minister an open check and should be more specific. This is my humble observation with concern to this proposed amendment. Thank you very much, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pujut.
Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: … (Inaudible)
Tuan Speaker: I can’t hear you. Is your mic working? Then, you can swap your seat. Is the mic next to you working? No? Is the entire system down? Can you all hear me? Well, Member for Kidurong, after you spoke, there seems to be a problem with the mic. Shall we have … (Inaudible)
(Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 3:08 petang)
(Mesyuarat dimulakan pada jam 3:52 petang)
[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, I am sorry for the breakdown in the system. It was caused by two many buttons being pressed simultaneously. Honourable Member for Pujut.
Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: Thank you, Tuan Speaker. I rise to participate in the debate to support the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 which has been tabled by the Honourable Minister for Public Utilities. It is noted that various amendments under the said bill will provide the state water authority with more technical enforcement powers to manage the state water resources and at the same time introduce more determined penalties for offences under the Water Ordinance, 1994. I can see that the said amendments will kick start a new water management strategy to ensure that very important water resources of our state is preserved, protected and utilized efficiently and at the same time leading the state water authority to be financially independent.
This I must say, augurs well for the future of one of the state most important natural resources. I must congratulate the Honourable Minister and the team for taking the initiative to introduce the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006.
Tuan Speaker, I wish now to highlight some of the amendments together with my observations.
Clause 3 introduces a new section 29A dealing with unlawful connection of water supply. Subsection 1 introduces different scale of penalties from different users of water. I fully subscribe to the intention to impose lower penalties for domestic users. Though we should not condone any illegal acts at all, we must realize that many domestic users are poor and are in need of help. We should exercise more understanding and care when dealing with those in the poverty group. Therefore a lower penalty for the domestic users is a clear indication of Barisan Nasional Government’s caring attitude for the general public especially those in the lower income group.
Subsection (2) gives the court the power to order the licence of pipe fitters and man layer to be suspended for such period of time as the court may determine. This means that the licence may be suspended for life. I would request the Honourable Minister during the enforcement of this ordinance do consider advising its administrative office to set a guideline for suspension time frame instead of leaving the task to the court to decide.
Clause 4 which introduces a new Section 34 to substitute the old one deals with the disconnection of supply pipes. Section 34(1)(a) states that the water supply authority shall give a written notice to the consumer to remedy or rectify the default or contravention within such a period as may be specified in the notice.
I notice that no time frame is mentioned in this amendment clause. I would request that the Honourable Minister do insert a specific reasonable time frame for this notice when the administrative officers carry its duties so that the consumers will not suffer, the notice being received too late syndrome.
Clause 6 deals with special powers during emergency. I believe this is aimed at addressing the problems of water shortage during drought or technical breakdown. We all know that the world weather has changed and the Borneo Island is not spared. Sarawak has experienced occasionally abnormally long spell of dry weather during the last 15 years. Miri Division had in fact experienced a very long dry spell some ten years ago when water supply had to be rationed and controlled.
It was the abled Barisan Nasional Government that managed the limited water resources carefully during the emergency that saved the day. Of course, the same government took one step further to carry out the proactive step to locate and connect a new water source to the reservoir to virtually eliminate any possibilities of future water shortage in the Miri area. Having said that and having personally experienced the water shortage emergency during that time, I would strongly support the introduction of this new Section 36A.
Clause 11 deals with the offences relating to water meters by introducing a new Section 42A. This new section brings with it hefty deterring penalties for theft of water meters. The introduction of this new section is timely as Sarawak experiences an increasing rate of theft of water meters. 29 water meters were stolen in Miri during the first six months of this year alone compared to only 17 for the whole of 2005. I hope that the new penalties will address this increasing problem.
Clause 14 deals with the increase of penalties under Section 45 of the Water Ordinance, 1994 for causing pollution to the water works which is costly to rectify and may be extremely harmful to consumers. The increase penalties will hopefully be a deterrent for negligence or wrongful act by those who have commercial, agricultural or industrial activities near to the water catchment area.
Clause 14 deals with the increase of penalties under Section 45 of the Water Ordinance, 1994 for causing pollution to the waterworks which is costly to rectify and may be extremely harmful to consumers. The increased penalties will hopefully be a deterrent for negligence or wrongful act by those who have commercial, agricultural or industrial activities near to the water catchment area.
Clause 15 introduces new Section 46A giving powers to authorized persons to compound offences under the Ordinance or regulations made thereafter. Understandably, this is introduced to enhance the efficiency of the administration of this Ordinance. The maximum compound which is one half of the maximum fine prescribed is RM10,000.00. This is by no account a small sum. We must therefore ensure that the administration of this Ordinance is properly carried out to avoid unfair or incorrect penalties being charged on the innocent.
Tuan Speaker, wet years can bring flood and drought years put pressure on available water supplies. Either extreme means trouble for the people. The State Water Authority has done a reasonably good job to ensure that the State can meet the demands of water consumers. I must congratulate all past and present officers and staff of this Authority for an excellent job well done, although they faced many constraints along the way. The big challenge now and for the future is to make sure that water and good quality water for that matter is in the right places at the right time. In future, water management challenges will be more complex as population increases, demand pattern shifts, environmental needs are better understand and global climate changes. As we add a new bill to administer the water resources, we must also educate the people on efficient water usage, we must protect our water quality and we must support environmental stewardship. We must also promote coordination and collaboration among the local agencies and government to preserve and enhance our water resources. Let us all work together to have a well managed strategy to ensure that we have continuous abundance quality water supply for our people and our growing economy. We must secure this for the benefit of all future Sarawakians. With these comments, Tuan Speaker, I fully support this Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Thank you.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kalaka.
Y.B. Encik Abdul Wahab Aziz: Tuan Speaker, saya bangun untuk mengambil bahagian dalam perbahasan mengenai rang undang-undang, Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Masalah yang dihadapi oleh badan-badan air seperti yang dinyatakan adalah seperti yang berikut:-
(1) Pengguna tidak membayar mahupun lembab membayar caj kepada air yang telah digunakan kepada badan pembekal air berkaitan;
(2) Menyambung bekalan air secara haram ataupun mencuri air yang mengakibatkan kerugian yang besar dari segi pendapatan kepada agensi-agensi bekalan air; dan
(3) Masalah kecurian meter bekalan air dan keempat, memperbaiki prosedur penguatkuasaan supaya lebih efektif ataupun berkesan lagi.
Tuan Speaker, rang undang-undang, Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006, ini akan dapat menangani masalah-masalah yang saya katakan tadi. Tetapi tidaklah boleh dipastikan seratus peratus dapat diselesaikan. Pelaksanaan rang undang-undang ini kelak akan dapat mempastikan badan-badan pembekal air menjadi lebih efektif dan efisyen lagi. Kita memerlukan banyak peruntukan kewangan untuk mengatasi masalah bekalan air bersih di bandar mahupun di luar bandar. Dari itu usaha-usaha harus dilakukan untuk membendung kerugian yang sering dialami oleh badan-badan pembekal air. Orang-orang yang tidak bertanggungjawab harus diambil tindakan dengan tegas. Pihak badan pembekal air harus dilihat sebagai agensi yang bertanggungjawab bukan sahaja mengatasi keperluan rakyat untuk mendapat bekalan air yang bersih tetapi juga mengambil tindakan yang tegas terhadap pelaku-pelaku yang membawa kerugian ke atas pendapatan dan harta benda badan-badan pembekal air.
Dalam melaksanakan kuasa, pihak badan pembekal air tidak akan bertindak dengan sewenang-wenangnya. Misalannya, sebelum memutuskan bekalan, notis akan diberikan kepada pengguna untuk menyelesai atau membaiki kesalahan, Seksyen 34(2).
Tuan Speaker, saya sekali lagi ingin menegaskan bahawa saya menyokong rang undang-undang Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 untuk diluluskan. Terima kasih.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pending.
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Thank you, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker, I also rise to make some observations on the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 that was tabled by the Honourable Minister.
First on Clause 4 of the Bill: Clause 4 of the Bill seeks to substitute Section 34 of the Ordinance. By the new section, it shall be lawful for the water supply authority to disconnect from the waterworks the supply pipe to any premises, if the consumer fails to settle the amount due for charges for the supply of water and meter rent or for services rendered, fails to pay deposit, or if the consumer is found to be willfully or negligently wasting water and etc.
Tuan Speaker, I agree that consumers have to pay for what they consumed. I also agree that it is unwarranted to waste water. But there is another aspect of life that we must consider. Water is a basic necessity of life.
To deny a person of water is like denying one’s right to air and a denial of the basic human right. That is why we have to be very careful about cutting water supply off another person.
Because water is a basic necessity, supply should not be cut off in the event that the consumer fails to pay the bills or the deposit or unnecessarily waste water. There could well be many reasons behind these, and it is necessary for the water supply authority to find out why.
Tuan Speaker, like you, I have the privileged to read law. I understand that in 2004, the High Court held that Perbadanan Bekalan Air Pulau Pinang Sdn. Bhd.’s attempt to cut off the water supply was an oppressive act done with the interest of pressuring the consumer into submission and making the payment. Because it was an oppressive act, it was not permissible to cut off the water supply.
If people do not pay up for money owed to the water supply authority, the authority can always go to court to recover the debts and there are procedures or orders that the court could make to enforce the recovery of such debts.
The court provides the avenue for justice for all parties concerned. Let the court hear it out and decide instead of one being twisted in the arms of threats of no water supply.
There is therefore not a need for us here to amend the law to the extent of disconnecting one’s water supply for the money he owed.
I heard that in some countries water for domestic use is free but look at where we stand in our proud State of Sarawak where rainfall is among the highest in the world.
To disconnect the water supply to the premises may affect lives of the people. We should not enact laws that will take away our rights to our basic amenities.
Tuan Speaker, I now proceed to touch on Clause 11 of the Bill. Clause 11 adds a new Section 42A " Offences relating to water meters.
Theft of scrap metals and metal covers had become very rampant nowadays. Once there is supply, there is demand. Offenders are those who steal and those who buy the scrap metals.
Now, theft of water meters have become rampant also. I have been told that unlike scrap metals, water meters fetch a high price because the metal is of far more superior quality.
I agree that those water meter thieves ought to be punished. On the other hand, we must also realize that is it so easy for the dealers of scrap metals to distinguish water meters from scrap metal. They only need to spend a little time to look into the pile of metals brought to them … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Tuan Speaker, clarification.
Tuan Speaker: Are you taking it? Okay.
Menteri Muda Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Encik Sylvester Entri anak Muran): Just now the Honourable Member for Pending said that in other developed countries the water free and also in Sarawak we have plenty of rain. Does the Honourable Member for Pending said that the government should provide free water in Sarawak?
Tuan Speaker: Are you advocating free water?
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: If the government can do so, why not? We should. We have the highest rainfall in the world. So I may proceed.
Tuan Speaker: Proceed.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Yes. Are you giving way?
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Ya.
Tuan Speaker: Okay.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): May I ask which country gives her water free? To the … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Which country is giving water free?
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: New Zealand. New Zealand.
Tuan Speaker: New Zealand?
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Yes … (Interruption)
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Tuan Speaker, I am New Zealand too and I don’t believe its water is free…(Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: One at a time. And then one word of caution, don’t press too many button simultaneously. Otherwise it doesn’t work. One at a time.
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Tuan Speaker, I think that..(Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pujut. are you giving way? Pujut. Member for Pujut. Okay.
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Pujut? Okay.
Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: Thank you, Tuan Speaker. I would like to ask the Honourable Member for Pending, when she said rainwater is abundant, the water should be free. How does she propose to cover the cost of turning the water, raw water into consumable water? Thank you.
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: If I may emphasise on don’t spend too much money in building the new DUN building, then we have the money … (Applause)
Menteri Perumahan (Dato Sri Abang Haji Abdul Rahman Zohari bin Tun Abang Haji Openg): It is irrelevant … (Laughter)
Y.B. Cik Violet Yong Wui Wui: Tuan Speaker, I now proceed to touch on Clause 11 of the Bill. Clause 11 adds a new Section 42A " Offences relating to water meters.
I agree that those water meter thieves ought to be punished. On the other hand, we must also realize that is it so easy for the dealers of scrap metals to distinguish water meters from scrap metal. They only need to spend a little time to look into the pile of metals brought to them.
I concur that heavy penalty must be meted out to the thieves so that people are deterred from committing the crime. In fact, the dealers must be equally punished if they are found buying the water meters without taking reasonable steps to ensure that they are not accomplice to the crime.
Just like it is an offence to sell turtle eggs without permit, it should be equally an offence to buy them.
But the law must be properly enforced. The existence of the law is not of any use if the law is not enforced.
I now come to Clause 16 of the bill. It provides by a new Section 47B the power of arrest. As with all criminal procedure, I urge that whenever any authorized officer wants to make a search on any conveyance, building or facility it should be armed with a search warrant. Otherwise, the power may be easily abused.
In an application for a search warrant, credible information, reasonable complaint, reasonable information of offence must be received before a search warrant to be issued.
Lastly, the person arrested must be produced to the court within 24 hours after being taken into custody by the officer in charge of the police station.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Jepak.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much, Tuan Speaker. I hope I don’t damage the PA system while talking about water. After my neighbour from Kidurong spoke, the PA system broke down. If it happens after me then people from Bintulu, they restore their power, supernatural. So we are not those gangs…(Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Maybe Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Jepak wouldn’t be too watery.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: No. It is watery subject we are talking about so it has to be a bit watery. That is a very fluid sort of discussion I can assure you.
Now, let me start. Water is a precious item, a precious commodity. It is good that we have this amendment. If you look at new Section 29A, this is to stop theft. Thievery or theft of any commodity is important in any society. If there is unlawful connection, we have to stop it and preventive measure is important but I would like to draw your attention to (1)(c). If I am not exceeding RM50,000 or imprisonment not exceeding one year or both such fine and imprisonment if the water is used by him for industrial purposes. I don’t know how rampant but I have read in newspapers there is such thing people tapping water paying domestic rate for industrial purpose. Lets talk about big factory. If they are allowed to get away with it, they will be stealing a lot of water. So, I am of the opinion that RM50,000 might be too lenient. I would like to say if the fare has gone to hundreds of thousand, they should be fined hundreds of thousand, not 50,000. Why not imprisonment as well? This is to discipline people and to stop theft. If people want to argue with me, feel free. If you want people to allow theft, I don’t agree. So, it should be increased.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Thank you, Ahli Yang Berhormat. Even if the penalty is too stiff, you know, officers enforcing them tend to come in the bumper. Then they reap a good crop out of it. I believe you mean the possibility of corruption is there.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talip Zulpilip: Okay. My friend Bukit Assek, I don’t believe that is true in all cases. There are honest officers, you know. Yes. Let us give them an applause. There are honest officers, government officers in this room. (Applause) Now, many I can assure you if not some.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: But as I said, there are some not honest.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: The naughty ones…(Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: You will also agree with me.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Okay.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Thank you.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: The naughty ones can be caught. No problem there but we are dealing with those stealing so that where the amount comes in…(Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Bukit Assek, you seem to have a particular liking for Honourable Member for Jepak. (Laughter)
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: We have to prove that “liking” in specific context.
Tuan Speaker: Alright.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: In the sense that Honourable Member for Jepak is a very honourable man and he doesn’t mind. He even said “Okay. In the event you want to come and interrupt, by all means do.” So I think that is very gentleman of him. In that sense, yes I like him. (Laughter)
Tuan Speaker: Please proceed.
Y.B. Datuk Haji Talib Zulpilip: Thank you very much for the compliments, Honourable Member for Bukit Assek and I can assure this august House, our liking is not that way incline. We are both straight. (Laughter) Now, I don’t have to amplify that, do I?
And the next point I would like to raise is this. There was some dissension with regards to this connection. To me, we shouldn’t worry too much because it is provided here, the Subsection (2). Before exercising its powers under Subsection 1, the water supply authority shall give a written notice to the consumers to remedy or rectify the default or contravention in such period as maybe specified in the notice. Thus, very humane and very reasonable way to implement. And if you read the Subsection 3, if on the expiry of the period specified in the notice given under Subsection 2, the consumer fails to remedy or rectify the default or contravention, the water supply authority may proceed to disconnect the supply to the premises. I believe this is a very reasonable pace of legislation.
Now, a few things I would like to amplify. My neighbour from Kidurong mentioned about water supply supplied to big industries during the drought. This is not uncommon because if we kept the water to ammonia urea, to LNG, it will cause even more hardship to the people because many jobs will loss. Now, if we recall there was an earthquake in Taiwan cutting power supply. The first power supply was restored to the industries, to the hi-tech industries. So in allocating resources, we have to give priority where economic importance which is of greater interest to the greater population will be given priority.
Now, Honourable Member for Pending, is it? Oh, she is not here. Never mind. She mentioned about free water in New Zealand. I would not quarrel with her but as far as my recollection, it is like this. Those who live in farm, they drew the water from the ground, they don’t have to pay anybody but they get permission. Those who live in cities, well, I lived in city when I went to university, we had to pay for water. I don’t know where, in what flat, in what city you can get free water. I would like you to enlighten. Thank you very much. I support the amendment.
Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? Honourable Member for Asajaya.
Y.B. Tuan Haji Abdul Karim Rahman Hamzah: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker, kerana memberi peluang kepada saya untuk turut serta dalam perbahasan rang undang-undang ini.
I rise to participate in this debate on the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 which was first presented in this august House yesterday. This bill which I see as timely and appropriate seek to amend the Water Ordinance, 1994 and strengthen the position of our water supply authorities and I must congratulate the Honourable Minister for Public Utilities and his ministry for coming up with this bill. Among others, this bill hopes to increase the water supply authority’s offer, especially in relation to recovering various of water charges and monies owed to the water supply authorities, by its consumers. The bill also hopes to deter unlawful and unauthorized connection of water supply or theft of water and also hopes to deter theft of water meters, which is quite rampant nowadays, and for better enforcement procedures of the water supply authorities.
Tuan Speaker, there are three sections which I find of significance which come under the purview of this bill, namely Section 29A, Section 34 and Section 42A.
Section 29A relates to unlawful connection of water supply. It stipulates that any person who connects or permits or cause to be connected a supply pipe to any water works in contravention of Section 29(1) or 29(3) of the Principal Ordinance, commits an offence. Section 29(1) reads “any consumer shall make arrangement with water supply authority or a licensed pipe fitter to construct or supply pipe in any premise for the supply of water from the water works and Section 29 Clause 3 reads “when the construction of a water pipe and fitting has been completed to the satisfaction of the water supply authority, it shall be connected by the water supply authority to the water works. Any person who has committed an offence under this Section and upon conviction shall be fined not exceeding RM1,000 or one month imprisonment if the water is used for domestic purposes; RM10,000 or six months imprisonment if the water is used for commercial purposes and RM50,000 or one year imprisonment if the water is used for industrial purposes.”
Tuan Speaker, the time has come for the government, as well as the water supply authority, to be most forceful to clamp down on water theft. It happened in the city, it happened in the villages, as well as it also happened in the towns. As of how this is being done, there are many ways of how water thefts are being done but the most of common way is by way of bypass. If human being who has got a heart problem, sometimes they would undergo what we call heart bypass and for water theft this is also done by doing a bypass of the pipes. So they will bypass the meter and in this way the meter will not be reading the correct amount of water that is being consumed. So, probably if you do bypass of the water, there will be no more heart attack for you. With this new provision as provided by this Amended Bill hopefully the illegal connection as well as water theft could be very much reduced. I guess this is one of the reasons why we have come up with this amended bill.
Section 34 of the Principal Ordinance is amended and substituted with Section 34, which incorporates in this bill, to empower the water supply authority to disconnect the supply pipe to any premises if the consumer fails to settle amount due for charges to that premises or to any other premises under the consumer’s name.
The other section that I was referring to just now was Section 42(A) which relates to theft of water meters - Section 42(A) offences relating to water meters. It reads: “whoever without the approval of the water supply authority or the consumer removes or takes away any water meters fixed on or outside the premises of the consumer pursuant to Section 33(3) or has in his position a water meter which does not belong to him or which is not for the measurement of water supplied by a water supply authority to him as a consumer shall commit an offence and shall upon conviction be liable to a fine not exceeding RM20, 000 or to imprisonment not exceeding twelve months. It is very timely that the ministry comes up with this provision, with this clause because as we can see nowadays there has been a rampant theft of water meters.
I checked yesterday with Samarahan police, up to yesterday not less than 60 water meters have been stolen in Samarahan and Asajaya district itself. So we can see with this rampant theft of water meters there is a dire need of this provision or the passing of this law, of this bill to curtail the theft of water meters.
Untuk menggulung, Tuan Speaker, saya ingin mengingatkan juga bahawa badan pembekal air perlu juga untuk mengatur pentadbiran mereka kerana as we all know laws we can have, all kind of provision being passed, we can have all kind of laws being passed whether in this august House now or the existing laws that are available. But the question of whether we can have a good water system ataupun pentadbiran air memerlukan pentadbiran yang baik daripada badan-badan pembekal air. Inilah yang amat perlu, yang kita perlu aturkan kerana saya dapat melihat pada masa ini ada sedikit kelemahan dalam badan pembekal air semasa mereka mengurus pentadbiran mereka kerana inilah yang amat perlu kita aturkan. We can have all these laws but if we do not have proper enforcement or if we do not have proper administration of the water board or of the water authority, all these laws will not come to anything. Inilah yang amat kita perlu lihat di sini kerana kalau kita mahu ataupun kalau kita mahu mendapat balik arrears yang telah tertunggak pada masa ini, badan-badan pembekal air perlu melihat dimanakah arrears ini ataupun badan-badan yang manakah banyak tertunggak arrearsnya sama ada ia adakah agensi-agensi kerajaan, adakah ia kilang-kilang ataupun konsumer-konsumer persendirian. Kalau agensi-agensi kerajaan ataupun kilang-kilanglah yang banyak tertunggak sehingga menyebabkan tunggakan berjumlah melebihi daripada RM20 juta kita perlu mengatur sedikit supaya badan-badan ini dan juga kilang-kilang ini membayar tunggakan dan juga mengatur pembayaran bulanan yang teratur seterusnya.
Saya juga amat suka melihat dalam rang undang-undang ini ada proviso yang membolehkan badan yang bertindak ataupun badan pembekal mengkompaun ataupun all the offences that are available under the amended ordinance are compoundable, yang ini akan memboleh, memberi peluang kepada mereka yang akan diambil tindakan baiknya kilang-kilang ataupun agensi kerajaan ataupun juga orang perseorangan dapat mengurangkan denda-denda yang akan didenda terhadap mereka yang saya fahami dalam clause untuk kompaun adalah new Section 46(A) yang mengatakan; “The State Water Authority may by order prescribe any offence under this ordinance or regulation made under this ordinance as compoundable offences and the procedure for compounding such offences”. Dan selain daripada itu ia juga membekalkan dalam para yang kedua bahawa jumlah kompaun yang boleh dikenakan terhadap sesiapa yang telah melakukan kesalahan adalah jumlah tidak melebihi daripada separuh daripada jumlah maksima yang boleh ditetapkan terhadap kesalahan tersebut. Ini sekurang-kurangnya boleh meringankan beban mereka yang sudah saya percaya tunggakannya amat tinggi sekali ataupun yang telah timbul sehingga kini. Dan sedikit sebanyak saya rasa boleh meringankan apa yang telah dihuraikan oleh Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat daripada pihak pembangkang yang ada bersama-sama kita dalam Dewan yang mulia ini.
Dan dengan ucapan yang sedikit ini saya ingin merakamkan sokongan terhadap rang undang-undang ini. Sekian, terima kasih.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Tarat.
Y.B. Encik Roland Sagah Wee Inn: Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Tuan Speaker, my observations on the spirit and attainment of this bill is centred primarily on four main teething issues.
(1) It is intended to prevent illegal taping of water. I am sure the Honourable Minister could tell us that it is not intended to go against or to go for the ordinary consumer but rather for those who does it illegally and on a bigger scale. And I am sure you could tell us also that we have suffered many losses from these actions. This provision in the bill here, Sir, is very comprehensive and it gives the mechanism for the government or the water authorities to address these problems.
If I may comment just now on the matter raised by the Honourable Member for Kidurong about giving free water to the squatters. Of course, water is a very basic thing which all of us need but at the same time also if any other people have to pay for it, I think there should not be others who should have it free. If you want it free as the Honourable Member for Pending said it was in New Zealand but corrected by the Honourable Member for Jepak, I think in the kampung we still have free water and she is invited to come to kampung to have free water. (Applause).
So back to the matter raised by the Honourable Member for Kidurong about giving them pipe water, Sir. I think we do have this problem also where we give pipe water to squatters then they become permanent squatters. Then they will ask for more things, they will not ask just for the leg. Next time, they will ask for the betis until it reaches your head. I think we can’t allow this sort of illegal occupation, illegal action. So, I am sure there are other ways where the government can assist these squatters in a more proper manner but not by giving them this water and allowing them to tap it illegally.
(2) The second issue, Sir, is it adjusts the current problem which is very rampant and very recent, theft of water meters. Several Honourable Members have mentioned that it must have been that the meters are very valuable and that is why there will be a lot of cases of theft of these water meters. And I think it is appropriate and at the right time that the water authorities have to nip this matter at the bud. I think before nobody wants to steal water meters but somehow recently this is something which has become a fashion among those who want to profit from this trade. And it is also appropriate that not just those who steal but I think this will also cover those who buy and store and keep these water meters.
(3) The third issue, Sir, it provides for a more effective and efficient mechanism for the collection of revenue from water. Previously I think we do not have in the principal ordinance such a provision to set off or to get these several bills that are being owed under one person’s name or under one company’s name to pay together or in a collective manner but I think this time we have the mechanism to let this be done so that they cannot move from one place to another and leaving a trail of unpaid bills behind them. Because, if I am not mistaken, Sir, there are millions being owed to the government just because of unpaid water bills. And I think, Sir, this one should be collected so that the water authorities can have more fund for the maintenance and for the treatment of water. And further to give more services to the public at large. Why should we allow just a few people to escape and yet this is very important for the general public, for all of us.
(4) And fourthly, Sir, there is exception provision here and it is very comprehensive in relation to prosecution of offenders. So I don’t think we have any qualms about this. Furthermore it is fortified by references here in the amendment that whatever investigation, whatever warrant arrest, whatever actions that are to be taken by the relevant offices have to be in compliance with the CPC (Criminal Procedure Code) and I think that has been accepted by everybody in this country in relation to criminal offences.
Further, Sir, we could see that there are provisions for compounding of offences. This just shows that the government, Sir, is also sympathetic to consumers whether they are big or small. So, if they can comply and compound and correct their unlawful ways, they can get their reconnection faster I believe in this sense.
So, with those observations, Sir, I would also strongly support this Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006. Thank you.
Tuan Speaker: Any other Honourable Member wishes to speak? If not, I shall call upon the Honourable Minister to wind up.
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Terima kasih, Tuan Speaker. Saya ingin mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah pun membahaskan Rang Undang-Undang (Pindaan) Air, 2006 ini. Banyak cadangan yang baik dan kita akan pertimbangkan segala cadangan-cadangan yang telah pun diberikan. Dan saya dapati ada juga cadangan-cadangan yang tidak begitu munasabah. Ya, kita akui bahawa di Negeri Sarawak ini kita mendapat hujan yang banyak dan ada masanya juga kita dalam keadaan kemarau misalnya. Kita kekurangan air. Jadi saya tak tahu bagaimana kita boleh memberi air secara percuma.
Nak dapatkan air hujan pun saya rasa kita terpaksa belanja. Nak beli tangki air, nak beli tempayan. Apatah lagi nak membuat loji-loji air. Dari itu saya menganggap bahawa ini merupakan cadangan yang tak begitu munasabah.
Tuan Speaker, saya rasa tak perlulah untuk nak menjawab point by point apa yang telah pun dibangkitkan oleh Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat. Basically, the intention of the bill is to eliminate theft of water and theft of water meters. The law will be imposed rigorously but fairly. Termasuklah emergency power yang diberikan kepada Menteri. Ini perlu misalnya pada musim kemarau, kita perlu mencatu air dan dengan itu kita mahu mempastikan bahawa pengguna-pengguna air ini tidak akan menyalahguna air misalnya digunakan air untuk menyiram kebun-kebun, mencuci kereta dan sebagainya sedangkan kita berada dalam keadaan yang mendesak, musim kemarau. Dari itu kita perlu ada emergency power ini untuk menangani masalah-masalah tertentu dan ini untuk kepentingan semua.
Tuan Speaker, while we appreciate water is an important commodity, people must be law abiding. Those who need water will be supplied with water but they must not be involved in illegal tapping or misuse water or participate in any activity which cause losses to our water supply authority.
Tuan Speaker, saya ingin memaklumkan kepada Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kidurong, pembayaran bil melalui internet. Ia ini sudah kita jalankan melalui Programme Pay Bills Malaysia khususnya pada mereka yang mempunyai kemudahan ini dan kita akan terus mempastikan sistem pembayaran bil ini dapat dikemaskini dari semasa ke semasa. Tapi kita tidak dapat melaksanakan ini bagi kawasan-kawasan di luar bandar di mana mereka tak menikmati kemudahan-kemudahan seperti ini jadi kalau kita nak laksanakan semua meliputi semua kawasan, saya rasa buat setakat ini belum dapatlah kita nak laksanakan semuanya.
Tuan Speaker, saya mengucapkan terima kasih kepada Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat yang telah pun memberi pandangan yang begitu baik dan kita akan terus mempastikan dengan kelulusan rang undang-undang ini bahawa pentadbiran di semua water authority akan dapat diperkemaskan demi untuk kepentingan kita semua. Kelulusan rang undang-undang ini akan membantu dalam mencapai objektif untuk mengurangkan secara significant amaun tunggakkan yang dihutang oleh pengguna air kepada pihak berkuasa bekalan air dan untuk menghalang penyambungan yang tidak sah atau tidak dibenarkan bagi bekalan air atau kuciran air yang merupakan kerugian besar dari segi hasil kepada water authority dan kita juga berharap dapat mengatasi masalah kecurian air. Cadangan pindaan akan membolehkan prosidur penguatkuasaan yang lebih baik supaya peruntukan-peruntukan baru bertulis secara berkesan. Pegawai-pegawai awam atau pegawai-pegawai dari mana-mana water authority yang telah diberi kuasa oleh pihak berkuasa air negeri akan diberi kuasa untuk menyiasat sebarang kesalahan dibawah ordinan ini dan menangkap tanpa waran sesiapa yang disyaki melakukan kesalahan tersebut.
Tuan Speaker, pindaan Rang Undang-Undang ini cuba mengatasi masalah-masalah yang kita hadapi sekarang dan kita memerlukan kerjasama dari semua pihak. Jika sekiranya berlaku kebocoran air maka mereka hendaklah melapor kepada water authority dan kita akan pastikan untuk mengatasi masalah-masalah itu. Dari itu kerjasama semua pihak adalah begitu penting sekali.
Tuan Speaker, dari itu maka saya mohon untuk mengesyorkan agar rang undang-undang ini diluluskan. Terima kasih.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the dewan will now resolve into the Committee of the Whole House to consider the bill which stands committed to the committee.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE
[Tuan Pengerusi mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan will now consider the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006.
Clauses 1 " 17
Tuan Pengerusi: The question is that Clauses 1 to 17 be ordered to stand part of the bill.
Question put and agreed to
Clauses 1 " 17 stand part of the bill
Enacting Clause Intitule
Tuan Pengerusi: The Dewan resumes.
HOUSE RESUMED
[Tuan Speaker mempengerusikan Mesyuarat]
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I wish to report the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 has been considered by the Committee of the Whole House and agreed to without amendment.
RANG UNDANG-UNDANG KERAJAAN "
BACAAN KALI YANG KETIGA
WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2006
Menteri Perancangan dan Pengurusan Sumber II dan Menteri Kemudahan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Haji Awang Tengah bin Ali Hasan): Tuan Speaker, I beg to move that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be now read a third time and do pass.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, the question before the Dewan is that the Water (Amendment) Bill, 2006 be read a third time and do pass.
Question put and agreed to
Bill read a third time and passed
USUL DARIPADA AHLI DEWAN BIASA
Tuan Speaker: Ahli-Ahli Yang Berhormat, continuation of reply by Ahli Yang Berhormat Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam on the motion by Ahli Yang Berhormat Encik Chong Chieng Jen. I am governed by Standing Order 29, that no reply shall be accorded to the mover of the motion, Standing Order 29. I shall now call upon the Minister.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y. B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, I was on suspension at the eventual abolition of local authorities election last night. So I will start where I stopped last night.
Local Government elections involve people at the local levels. Electoral wards have, out of necessity, to be very small. In rural areas, each ward may only have a few hundred voters (bearing in mind that some State constituencies in remote areas only have a few thousand voters). One or two longhouses or kampungs may form one electoral ward. Elections against such a background would invariably divide the people, living in close proximity to each other, along political or even communal or religious lines, and be a recipe for discord and bitter disputes. These conditions could only cause political instability and perhaps communal misunderstanding. If local elections are to be held, like in the 1950s and the early 1960s every three years, the likely scenario would be that tension on the ground will cause political instability, security problems and disunity " elements which gave rise to the original suspension of local government elections in 1971, recurring.
The Government’s firm and well considered view points is that the re-introduction… (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, I would like to seek clarification. Is the Honourable Minister saying that even now at this stage, after 40 years of independence, the rakyat are still not matured enough to have election and that Local Government Election will cause hard tension because that was not the reason given for the suspension. The reason was because of the confrontation and what about the State Election and Parliamentary Election?
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I just mentioned that this is a possibility and let me go on. You have your chance later on. It’s a possibility. Thank you.
The government’s firm and well considered view points is that the re-introduction of local government election will not be beneficial to the state and whatever little intangible advantage that may be gained from having this election will definitely be outweigh by the deficitness and hardship that would result and the detriment that would be caused to the stability and peace which have to prevail in order for Sarawakians to enjoy progress and development. Tuan Speaker, an ad hoc committee was established by the State Government in 1973 to review the structure of local government in Sarawak. In the light of the Royal Commission’s report on local authorities in Semenanjung Malaysia. The Commission’s report was used as a reference point and guide for the improvement, development of controlled of Local Government in Sarawak by the committee.
Tuan Speaker, consequently the then Minister for Local Government, Tan Sri Datuk Amar Leo Moggie anak Irok presented the Kuching Municipal Council Amendment Bill 1977 and the local Authority (Amendment), Bill 1997 to restructure the local authorities. The two bills with similar objectives were duly passed and they effectively signal the demise of local government election for councilors in Sarawak. The amendments came into force on 15thOctober, 1981 when the nominated system for local authorities became a reality. In his speech to the Dewan, the then Honourable Minister for Local Government said, I quote:
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the most important criterion to an effective administration of the local authorities in addition to having adequate financial resources is the need to have efficient councilors and personnel. It is with this objective in mind that the Local Authority (Amendment), Bill 1977 is now introduced. The object of the bill is to enable the government to restructure the local authorities in the state so that these local authorities can function more efficiently and effectively within the framework of national objectives. The bill provides for unified structural pattern of local government throughout the state based on the outline to local government act 1976 of Semenanjung Malaysia. In essence, Mr Speaker, Sir, the effects of the bill is to change the system from an effective to a nominative local government administration”.
He continued, Tuan Speaker; “I have already indicated some of the main arguments against the continuation of an elective system of a local government administration. Surely, Sir, local democracy is not dead, neither it is dying for the simple reason that we have taken away the elective practice in local administration. Democracy will still continue because our elective practice will still continue for our Council Negeri and the parliament also”.
Then he further added, thirdly, Tuan Speaker, the payers of a council controlled by party politics will not be discussed and resolved on their merits and quite possibly they are mainly determind by political consideration and also there is the administration. Affairs which are parochial in nature and affairs which are service possibility that party politics will create political fractions within the council or a local authority and there will be opposition for opposition sake. This is also one possible weaknesses of a politically controlled and elective council administration but again, Sir, the most important reason is the affairs that are handled by local government oriented. He continues “a local government’s role basically is not a legislative one, it is not. It is largely deliberative, it is mainly administrative. There is no policy involved in trying to make sure that the roads, the potholes in the roads are being mended. These are activities purely of administrative nature. That type of activities does not require a policy decision but an elective politically managed local government administration entails. Neither do for that matter, elective councils ensure the election of good councilors.
Tuan Speaker, on the strength of a convincing argument by the then Honourable Minister for Local Government who was a Member of this Dewan for Machan. The two bills which contained provisions to abolish local government election was passed by this august House in 1977. As a matter of interest and for the benefit of the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, among those who supported the Authority (Amendment), bill 1977 was the then Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng, father of the Honourable Member who today moves the Motion to reinstate Local Government Election. It’s your father (Applause). The then Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng said and I quote from the Hansard, I believe that there was no family discussion before this …
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: May I seek clarification because this is getting personal? Now it’s Ok now, I am not being offended but I just …
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Nothing personal…
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Just that I believe during those times, that is 1974, 1975, 1970’s, those are very tumultuous time.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I agree.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: There are communist.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, let us hear first. I will give you a chance, let us hear first.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I agree and that is why I say that this was not discussed or either you have decided, Member for Kota Sentosa had decided to defer from what his father stood by in 1977. Corrected?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: And he is my father. Alright, now the thing is that those are times when there were communist threat, whereby I believe SUPP is the party is threathening the stability of this country, of course, of course but now we have progressed to the 21st century already. We should leave those unhappy history away and … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Perumahan dan Menteri Muda Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Dr. Soon Choon Teck): Point of clarification, Tuan Speaker, Is the Member for Kota Sentosa saying that SUPP was threatening the peace of Sarawak at that time? 1977? Are you saying that?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Before…
Menteri Muda Perumahan dan Menteri Muda Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Dr. Soon Choon Teck): I think if he reads the history right it is SUPP that restore the peace in Sarawak. I think SUPP’s contribution to the peace of Sarawak is recorded in the history.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think it is a subjective opinion.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. In fact SUPP rejoin the coalition government in 1970, for your information.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ok, Tuan Speaker, I quote here from the Hansard:
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment on the Local Authority (Amendment), Bill. The main and the most important change is the constitution of the local councils, that is to say, from elective system into nominated councils in view of the unsatisfactory management of most councils, changes in the structure of the local authority in Sarawak are, therefore, highly, timely and desirable”.
Three very important words, highly, timely and desirable.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, timely, now it is timely to change it to local government election. Now is timely. At that time it was timely to suspend it, now it is timely to restore it as what we are arguing for.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ok thank you.
Tuan Speaker: Member for Kota Sentosa you can raise point of information but not rebuttal. Yours is a rebuttal.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): He continues, quote:
“The object of this bill, Mr Speaker, Sir, is intended to remedy all the defects of the local authorities by restructuring and reorganising the local authorities that provide efficient and effective services to our communities. In this connection, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to refer especially to Section 3(g) which is based on the lines of the local government act Section 7 of Semenanjung Malaysia which provides all councilors shall be appointed by Yang diPertua Negeri for a term not exceeding three years”.
I am not aware of any subsequent statement by the former Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng, contradicting what he had said in this august House in 1977. I can safely assume that if he were to be here today, I think he would stand by by what he said in 1977 (Laughter).
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: That is a wrong assumption. That is a wrong assumption. I have discussion. We have discussion of political matters…
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Oh, you have discussed with your father ..
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: At that time it was necessary but now it is not and that after twenty years of trying… (Interruption)
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): I just want to ask you have you discussed this with your father before you make the move?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Oh surely, surely …
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): So your father agrees with what?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: He agrees with my stand now because at that time, at that time, he thinks that’s alright we try a new system by appointment but after twenty years or more than twenty years of experiment, it has proven a failure. It is worst than before, therefore, he said that he agrees with me now. Time has progress, we must progress and democracy must progress in this country. That is his position now.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ok thank you, thank you.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I will clarify that.
Role, Functions and Funding Of Local Councils
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, I will touch on the role of local authorities eluded by the then Honourable Minister for Local government at a later stage but for the time being I am to point out that it was the shortcomings of elective system of local government as highlighted in the speeches of the then Honourable Member for Repok and the then Honourable Minister for Local Government that led to the abolition.
These failings of the previous elective system of local council will certainly rear their ugly heads once we have local/grass root elections. Not only that, as the frequency of local election is once every three years, and such elections would be in addition to elections for Parliament and election for Dewan Undangan Negeri which are held every five years, this could give rise to a situation that, from time to time, there could be elections of one form or another, either for Parliament or Dewan Undangan Negeri or Local Authority, every year. By virtue of Regulation 13(1) of the Local Government Elections Regulations 1963, as amended in 1967, local council election could be held any time six months after dissolution of Dewan Undangan Negeri. This means that we have the election in May, so for our local council we have another election within this year, if we have local election. Because this is required in the Ordinance.
So, Tuan Speaker, this means, we, in Sarawak, could have a situation whereby elections to this Dewan and local council election could be held within the same calendar year. All these situations would present the people with a hefty, dangerous overdose of electioneering. Overdose, actually Sarawak is having overdose already.
Besides, in these circumstances, not only communal or religious polarization, which I have already mentioned, would surface, but continuous politicking at grass root level and also within the council will damage the running and management of the councils and impair their ability to serve the people. At the end of the day, the rate payers will suffer from too many elections, political arguments and divisions amongst politically motivated Councillors and inevitably poor service performance and delivery will result. It is just the contrary of what the mover of this bill wants.
The people or the rate payers will be paying a heavy price and subject to plenty of hardship just because the politically inclined wants to have local elections. The people would blame this government for repeating the mistakes of the colonial government for any re-introducing local government elections in Sarawak.
Tuan Speaker, in Malaysia, there is a three-tier system of government administrations,
(a) The Federal Government;
(b) The State Government; and
(c) The local authorities or sometimes called, the local councils.
The relationship between the Federal and State Governments is regulated by the Federal Constitution and the division of legislative powers of Federal Parliament and State Legislatures are clearly spelt out in the Ninth Schedule of the Federal Constitution. The financial obligations of both Federal and State Governments and the division of revenues are governed by the Federal Constitution and particularly in the Tenth Schedule thereof.
Tuan Speaker, in the colonial days, local authorities were called “Local Government”. That terminology is no longer applicable because local authorities no longer govern as such. Their functions, duties and powers are spelt out in the relevant laws. Section 97(1) of the Local Authorities Ordinance 1966 provides that no local authority shall exercise any power or perform any duties not expressly provided for under that Ordinance or any written law. Under Section 97(2) of the Ordinance, if a local authority is in doubt as to whether it should exercise any power or perform any duty it shall seek a ruling from the State Cabinet before it proceeds to exercise such power or perform such duty and the ruling of the State Cabinet shall be final and binding on the local authority. No local authority, by virtue of Sections 92 and 93 of the said Ordinance, can make any by-law or make amendments to such by-law or revoke the by-law without the approval of the Yang di-Pertua Negeri, who acts on the advice of the State Cabinet. Therefore, local authorities have no legislative powers and can only perform such duties or carry out such functions which laws made by this Dewan authorize them to do. Thus, they do not govern but they administer the areas under their jurisdiction in accordance with the laws passed by this august House or in some cases, by Parliament, or in accordance with by-laws made with the approval of the Yang di-Pertua Negeri acting on the advice of the State Cabinet.
Tuan Speaker, today, as stated by the then Honourable Minister for of Local Government in this august House, as far back as 1977, local authorities are mainly administrative bodies. Their duties are to provide services, such as waste management, maintenance of public facilities like public parks, markets, hawker stalls, public car parks, public roads under their jurisdiction, cleanliness of public places, provision of street lightings, public amenities like swimming pool, recreational parks, playgrounds, public toilets and bus stations and shelters. They carry out licensing of certain establishments, and collect fees which are fixed by the State Cabinet. They approve building plans and issue occupation permits under the Building Ordinance 1994 and they enforce certain laws relating to parking, public cleanliness, nuisance and unlawful building structures. Under the said Ordinance the Government vests land in local councils to be maintained by them as public parks, car parks and the like. In these circumstances, Tuan Speaker, local authorities must be viewed as an extension of the State Government or as agencies to provide services, amenities and other essential facilities to the people, to licence premises used for certain trades or occupations and to enforce certain rules and regulations especially those relating to public health and cleanliness. Local authorities, therefore, I repeat do not govern. They carry out duties laid down by legislations or as spelt out in by-laws made by the Yang di-Pertua Negeri on the advice of the State Cabinet.
Menteri Muda Pembangunan Infrastruktur dan Perhubungan (Y.B. (Dr) Lee Kim Shin): Tuan Speaker, point of clarification. Yesterday the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa said that there is no difference between local government and local authorities. So is the Honourable Minister now explain to him the difference between the local government and the local authorities.
Tuan Speaker: Minister, please continue.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Thank you. Tuan Speaker, the Local Councils derived their revenues principally from assessment rates, licence fees, stall and market rentals, and any services provided by the Councils. Apart from a few major councils, such revenues are hardly sufficient to cover the councils' operating expenditures in providing basic services for the people in their areas of jurisdiction. Councils, especially the smaller one in the rural areas always often incur substantial deficit each year and have to depend on government financial support in the form of grants or loans.
No Local Authority in Sarawak is financially autonomous. The Local Authorities, inclusive of all City Councils and the smaller Local Authorities, received the operating grant and development grants from both State and Federal Governments. Operating grants are solely provided by the State Government. Developments grants are received from both the State and Federal Authorities. Example, during the Eighth Malaysia Plan period, i.e. 2001 to 2005, a total sum of RM984.7 million was provided by the State Government in the form of grants to local councils. The Local Authorities also received a total sum of RM152.4 million as Federal grant during the same period to finance the various development projects within the respective councils’ areas of jurisdiction. The detailed breakdown are as follows:-
(i) State Operating Grants - RM381.0 million
(ii) State Development Grants - RM603.7 million
(iii) Federal Development Grants - RM152.4 million
Total - RM1.137.1 billion
These amounts include provision of State and Federal grants to Bintulu Development Authority or BDA.
Tuan Speaker, in this scenario, it is imperative that for local councils to carry out their duties and functions effectively and efficiently for the benefit of the people, that they must work with the State Government, they cannot afford to be in Opposition. To have local authorities who are unwilling or not prepared to work with the State Government would create unhealthy and hostile relationship that would be totally unacceptable and potentially cause not hardships these councillors but to the rakyat.
Financial Management and Accountability
Tuan Speaker, the Motion moved by the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa seems to justify having local government elections on the ground that their restoration would ensure financial accountability, transparency and avoidance of corruption in local authorities. My first response is to repeat what the then Honourable Minister for Local Government said in this august House in 1977, that is, effective councils do not ensure the election of good Councillors. There are bound to be “bad” apples especially if people were elected on political platforms with agenda to pursue and electors in their own areas to please or to be taken care of. In terms of accountability and transparency, the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations 1997, provide a comprehensive system for sound financial management of local authorities including accounting principles and standards to be followed. Procedures for procurement of good and services including appointment of Contractors and Consultants, tender and limits of financial authority are clearly set out in Part VII of the Regulations.
All local councils' annual budget and financial reports have to be sent to the Ministry for scrutiny and approval and in the case of the City Administrations in Kuching, these have to be sent to the State Cabinet for approval. The system embedded in the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations is a good system that ensures prudent and well- regulated financial management of the local councils. Indeed no one, not even the Opposition, has alleged that there are any shortcomings or deficiency in the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations, 1997.
All that needs to be done is to see that these Regulations are complied with and if they are not, the officers and councillors concerned would be penalised. I can say that it is a fair and transparent system. The government has always ensure that these regulations are complied with and the Internal Audit Department in the State Secretary's Office, conducts regular audit and surveillance of the local authorities to ensure compliance of these regulations. I cannot see how elected councillors can do a better job in this regard than professional internal auditors.
Tuan Speaker, as far as corruption is concerned, the government will not tolerate corrupt practices or indeed any form of malpractices in local authorities. Those who indulge in such practices, whether they are staff or councillors, will be severely dealt with. Under the Local Authorities Ordinance, any councillor who is found to have committed any offence relating to fraud, dishonesty or corruption, would be terminated. There is no compromise on this score. In any elective system, summary termination of a councillor by the government may not be possible, as the councillor is answerable to electors in his electoral ward. If he does not resign, there is very little the government could do to remove him except to report to the ACA.
Tuan Speaker, having reiterate that the government does not condone corrupt practices in local authorities affairs, I want to state that anyone who have evidence or proof of such practices should report them to the Anti Corruption Agency (ACA) or to my Ministry for action to be taken. The government will always co-operate with the ACA in their investigations. However, I urge the Opposition who tend to use weapon of mass deception to gain political mileage, not to make allegations of corruption which they cannot or are unable to substantiate.
Such allegations could have a demoralising effect on the local authorities' administration and politise the issue to nobody's benefit. I would like to urge members of the opposition, we admit that there are drains probably blocked, there may be flooding in certain cities but I would like to remind members of the opposition if there are two or three people get divorced does that mean that we should abolish the institution of marriage? That’s mean we change the system. It’s all because one or two drains are blocked, that’s mean we change the system from the nominated to the elective. I think I would like to urge the opposition members, if there is a credit, I think the credit should be given where it is due. Because all the times you have been mentioning about the bad things but you never actually appreciate what the council have done. Actually they have done good job. So please appreciate and by doing so I think they will also appreciate you.
25 Years of Nominative Local Councils
Tuan Speaker, years of nominative local councils, the performances. The system of nominative councils in Sarawak was launched on the 15thOctober, 1981 even though legislations to sanction the implementation of this system was passed in 1977.
Since the re-structure of Local Authorities in 1981, positive results are visible. In all urban areas, there have been improvements to public roads, better street lightings and maintenance of our roads, footpaths and drains. For instance, Kuching, Sibu, Miri and Bintulu are in much better shape than they were in the 1970s. The level of public cleanliness, the beautification efforts and healthy living conditions have improved not by 10% but by leaps and bounds.
The councillors had followed the policy directions laid down by the government in improving facilities, amenities, services and public health and cleanliness standards throughout the State. They have motivated the Administration and the staff of the councils in carrying out all programmes for the overall improvement of the areas under their jurisdiction, and encourage public cooperations and civic minded citizens to play their roles in providing amenities for the public. A lot of the amenities in Kuching, Sibu and Miri, for instance, were provided with the active support of companies and non-governmental organisations.
The close rapport between the councillors and the government, and between the councillors, staff and the public, have been responsible for the vast improvements we have seen in areas under the jurisdiction of the local authorities. In Kuching, we have the Hokkien Garden which was established through collaboration between Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan (MBKS) and the Hokkien community and the Friendship Memorial Park which was created in collaboration with the Chinese Government in China. In Sibu, amongst others, we have Wong Nai Siong Garden, a joint venture with Foochow Association, Hing Hua Garden, Taman Harmoni and Ku Tian Garden. Additionally, many of our local authorities have received recognition in the form of awards from foreign institutions as well as from the Federal Government.
These awards are as follows:-
No. Awards Local Authority
1. WHO Regional Director Award - 2004
Outstanding Healthy City in recognition of its trade record for sustained improvement in the overall Quality of Life of its citizens using the Healthy Cities Approach. Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan
2. National Bandar Lestari Award: - 2004
Winner of Physical Environment Category Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan
3. National Maintenance of Building and Housing Estate Competition - 2003
(Government Office Category) Majlis Bandaraya Kuching Selatan
4. Anugerah Inovasi Perkhidmatan Awam Tahun 2001 bagi Tajuk Inovasi “Perangkap Sampah Air Buluh dan Kabel” Dewan Bandaraya Kuching Utara
5. Pertandingan Anugerah Kualiti Pihak Berkuasa Tempatan 1994 dan Kategory Anugerah Sistem Kutipan Hasil dan Tunggakan, Peringkat Nasional Majlis Perbandaran Sibu
6. Laman Design Award: The Malaysia International Landscape and Garden Festival 2006 Majlis Perbandaran Sibu
7. Pemenang Pertama bagi Pertandingan Landskap Peringkat Kebangsaan Tahun 2001 (Kategory Taman Bandar " Taman Miri City Fan) Majlis Perbandaran Miri
8. Silver Award bagi Laman Malaysiana Award untuk Kategori World of Garden " Festival Antarabangsa Landskap dan Taman Malaysia 2004 Majlis Bandaraya Miri
9. Silver Award bagi Laman Theme Award untuk Kategori World of Garden " Festival Antarabangsa Landskap dan Taman Malaysia 2006 Majlis Bandaraya Miri
So, if we say that … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I am impressed with all the prizes they won. However, despite all these prizes that they won the candidate in the last State Election or in all this bandaraya-bandaraya suffered, the ruling party, the Barisan Nasional’s candidates suffered a serious drops in their votes. I have not finish my question.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Ya, ya.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have not finish my question.
Tuan Speaker: Okay, okay.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: In Kuching, even the Mayor has lost the election. Hasn’t the people told you something about that the Bandaraya Councillors are not doing their job? That is why, there is drop in the votes especially the bandaraya area and in Kuching is a classic case. Even Keadilan won their seat in the Chinese area. So how can they explain that? I think the service least much to be desired.
Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Permodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hong Nam): Excuse me, can I have a point of order please? I must admit the opposition has very good propaganda machine.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Point of order Tuan Speaker. I don’t wish to draw into election machineries here. It is unfair to say that the opposition to have very good propaganda machine that’s why they won the election. I think the people, the people are the one who tell us exactly what they want, and exactly what has the government done and therefore election are not won because of propaganda alone. Thank you.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, let me answer first. Not answer, but to question from the Member for Kota Sentosa.
Do you mean that all these councillors are not qualified and you mean that the judges who award these awards to these councillors are not qualified? And they are not qualified to receive the awards. This is not done by us, you know! It is done by other international or national level….(Interruption)
Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, ya, I, I congratulate, I congratulate all the award winning. I congratulate you on all the awards been won but just that, just that, even despite these awards, I am saying, even despite these awards, the people, the people, that is governed under all these bandaraya, Majlis Bandaraya, they…(Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, you have made your point. Let the Minister, ya. You have made your point.
Y.B Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Ya, ya. I want … (Interruption)
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Let me continue. Tuan Speaker, there is no reason for the government to change the system. No system is definitely perfect. The world is not a perfect place in any event but whatever deficiency that maybe found in the system can always be remedied. It can be improved to discard the present nominative system of the local governments and to revert back to the old one that is the elective system, failed approach of electing councillors would only be a sure recipe to revive the problems of the past which were associated with elective system of local authorities.
Summary and Conclusion
Tuan Speaker, let me now summarise the reasons which I had advanced on behalf of the State Government against the restoration of the local authorities election.
(1) Local Government election is now the state’s responsibility. The state would have to provide funds to create the requisite infrastructure such as delineation of electoral wards, registration and publication of electoral rolls and the setting up of the essential machinery to organize and conduct such election. All these will take time and effort and potentially vast some of state funds could be applied for development projects or cover deficit incurred by many of the rural councillors whose residents could hardly afford to pay rates at the level needed by these councils to provide them with basic amenities and services. And these I have said that if one ward were to spend RM50,000, one council has to spend RM1.25 million per one election and the whole state will have to spend RM32.5 million for one election.
(2) Bearing in mind that local council election were held every three years and under Regulation 13(1) for the Local Government Elections Regulations, 1963 which decrees that local government election could be held anytime six months after the dissolution of Dewan Undangan Negeri, we in Sarawak could be having election almost every year for either Parliament, Dewan Undangan Negeri or local councils. If these were to happen, the people in Sarawak would experience continuous politicking electioneering and intensified activities by political parties and many other interested parties. Ultimately, the people will have an overdosed, I said overdosed again of elections. These unhealthy development would cause division, misunderstanding, animosity among our communities and our people as a whole. The resulting political instability which was prevalent at the time when local government elections were held in the 1950s and 1960s would badly damage our state economically and politically.
(3) Election of councillors is not the solution to check or eliminate malpractices or corruptions. There is in place laws and regulations such as the Local Authorities (Financial) Regulations, 1997 which provide a comprehensive system for sound, prudent and well-regulated financial system for local authorities in Sarawak. The government remains committed to see that these regulations are rigorously complied with. I repeat the words the then Minister for Local Government said in this august House in 1977, “that local council election do not necessarily produce the best councillors”.
(4) The current nominative system of local councils was instituted because the previous elective system had failed and created problems. Even the then Honourable Member for Repok, Encik Chong Siew Chieng acknowledged that the previous elective system for local councils had its problems and supported the abolition of local authorities election. Therefore, the government had no intention to set the clock back by reinstating local authorities election in Sarawak.
(5) The present nominative system of the government has proven to be successful especially in terms of delivery of services, implementation of projects for the benefit of the rakyat.
(6) Lastly, Local Authorities do not govern on their own. They are merely administrative bodies and an extension of the government of the state in a largely dependant upon the state government for funds to meet both their operating and development expenditures. Local Authorities do not have absolute local legislative powers. By-laws and regulations of local authorities had to be approved by the Yang di-Pertua Negeri on the advice of the State Cabinet. Hence by not having a legislative role but merely administrative and implementation functions. It is not necessary for councillors to be elected.
For all the above reasons which I have given in great details, the government has taken a firm stand that is Local Government Election should not be restored as it is not in the interest of the people to introduce local authorities election. This issue actually has been raised up in the Federal Parliament and it was rejected. Therefore, the government will oppose the motion and I, as Minister responsible for Local Government urge Honourable Members including those from the opposition to reject this motion proposed by the Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa. Local Authorities in Sarawak needs fund not election. Thank you, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Tanjung Datu.
Y.B Dato Sri Haji Adenan bin Haji Satem: The Minister concerned has given a very comprehensive, very profound, very full answer to the motion. In fact, there is nothing left for me to say. Without wanted to say, all that remain to be done is for my fellow Barisan Members of this House to support the rejection of the motion as suggested by the Minister. So, there are few things I wish to say but it has already been said and said very well by the Minister concerned. So, there is no need for me to add on to that one.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Repok.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, I caught your eyes. Tuan Speaker, I participate in the debate on the motion that the central piece of argument in moving this motion by Member for Kota Sentosa is that essentially elections, only elections could stop corruptions in a short form. This is a statement of fallacy. Throughout history, many years to come, there will still be members, elected leaders being convicted for abuses, corruptions and malpractices.
For the information of this House, it is interesting to note that under Sarawak current nominated system of councillors for the past 20 over years, there was only one known case of councillor being convicted for a very minor offence. Now, we have also heard statement brought up by Member for Kota Sentosa. Statement made by Datuk Kaveas, very sweeping statement saying that: “Local Governments are corrupted goods”. Now, I would like to state here that Sarawak Local Authorities has never been part of the National Local Government. It is purely a state affair within the jurisdiction of the state. So I believe what Datuk Kaveas might have said is referred to the cases, situation in West Malaysia. So the facts spoke for itself, that, there was only one case of councillors being convicted. Well, we are not saying that this is a good record, we are not saying that but we believe that under the current systems, it is manageable.
Y.B Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, if I may, Ahli Yang Berhormat for Repok seems to say that there is only one case of corruptions?
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, Member for Bukit Assek, you are a lawyer yourself. You might be … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am asking a question whether are you saying that there is only one case….(Interruption)
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): There is one known case of councillor year 1989 … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: In the council?
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Ya.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: The Hansard seem to say differently.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): What the answer say in the Hansard?
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I remember between 1996, around 1997, 1998, I raised a question about corruption in local councils and I thought the answers that were given to me was there were more cases than one. Can I have some verification?
Tuan Speaker: Convicted is it? Charged or convicted?
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): I think it is for the Member for Bukit Assek, bring out the facts from the hansard and then we will argue about that may be in the next session, right! Whoever asserted, must prove.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: I am not making an assertion. I am seeking a clarification whether Ahli Yang Berhormat for Repok was saying that throughout all these years, there was only one case of corruption in the councils which resulted in conviction?
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can I, can I … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: That is why I am seeking a clarification. I am not making an assertion.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can I state very clearly that there was only one case of councillor being convicted since the year 1989. Right, before that…
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: May be, Tuan Speaker, can we have a-three minutes adjournment, we check the hansard and we see whether the hansard that I had … (Interruption)
Tuan Speaker: You check the handsard, the Minister continues.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Ya, I think that is fair. That is fair. It is easier, Tuan Speaker.
Tuan Speaker: You can check. The Minister can continue.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now in trying to make up a case for the motion for Honourable Member for Kota Samarahan has spoken, oh, sorry, Kota Sentosa, I beg your pardon, have spoken a lot on the land issue at Tabuan Laru. Now before I proceed further, I would like to call upon Member for Kota Sentosa to confirm the statements of allegation that was made yesterday, whether he still stand by those statements.
Now, I particularly like to refer to subject of malpractices against the three councillors, page 49. Now I need the facts to be further confirmed while I proceed to argue otherwise. Now page 49, it says “I think this is a malpractice, it is a malpractice, malpractice”.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I stand by what I said.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Page 49 of the hansard. Well, you need help?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I stand by what I said.
Tuan Speaker: You stand by what you said.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Then we move on to page 49, subject on SUPP. It was stated that SUPP involved. I believe the three councillors are appointed by SUPP. SUPP involved?
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa, the Minister is asking, you stand by it?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: As far as the involvement is concerned, it concerned the appointment, the appointment of these councillors, not the recommendation of these councillors, as recommended by SUPP … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Never mind, we will interpret it differently … (Interruption).
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You go on with the argument, you go on with the argument.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now there is another third statement against or relating to MBKS, page 51.
Tuan Speaker: Page?
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): 51.
Tuan Speaker: Ya.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Page 51. It relates because MBKS is building a market there and also further down fourth line, spoken by the Honourable Member also, the inference is clear, is as clear as water.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I think the record is correct.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Record is correct, so what you say is you stand by it. Correctlah.
Now in order to make up a case for the motion, Member for Kota Sentosa has spoken gradual on this Tabuan Laru land case. Now for record purpose, I would also like the Member concerned to state the name of the three councillors, the name of the three councillors here has never appeared in the handsard. You give us the name of the councillors whom you alleged could have committed conflict of interest.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I would decline to name the names but you know the names.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): I don’t know the names, whoever accused must substantiate.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: The names of the company which was, I will go to that, I will go to that, which was alienated with the land is Urusan Lengkap Sdn. Bhd. and their shareholders at that time, their shareholders were Philip Chan, a councillor, Pang Kim Soo, another councillor and one more, Lo Kong Seng. Let me mention the name properly, Lo Kong Seng. These are the three persons who are the shareholders of this company.
Tuan Speaker: You are mentioning the shareholders or the councillors, the three names?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Pardon?
Tuan Speaker: The three names are councillors or shareholders?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: They are shareholders, they have been councillors.
Tuan Speaker: Okay.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): So these three councillors were alleged to have committed conflict of interest.
Tuan Speaker, I stood here not in defence of the three councillors. But more important to inform this august House on the real, true and correct facts surrounding this incident.
If the facts are not going to be clearly stated in this august House, wrong and unfair conclusion such as accusing local authorities or its members of corrupt practices would be drawn against Barisan Nasional Government as a case to support the motion and more important, this august House could be misled into judging or thinking that these three councillors did commit conflict of interest and guilty of malpractices. I am duty bound here to inform this House on the actual case, the facts of the case to prevent the privilege of this freedom to speak in this House from being abused. On the facts of the case are as follows:
(1) The land in question is state land. It has never been MBKS land;
(2) MBKS did not deliberate or decide to build market on the said land, therefore they never apply to Lands and Surveys for the said land;
(3) The three councillors are professional in their own rights, they have every right like any other citizens to apply to Lands and Surveys for state land and plan approval. They have done so by submitting proposal in their own names and capacity. Never, had any at time, that they submit it in the name of the council or in the name of SUPP;
(4) Land and Survey Department has approved their application, has imposed conditions that they must build at their own cost and then hand over one market to the government free of cost for community purposes. The companies are also required to pay for the full premium and took the normal risk of business. SUPP as a political party has never been involved financially or otherwise in this project.
For record available, there is no case of conflict of interest. If the Member for Kota Sentosa feels that these councillors have committed offences in one way or the others, no allegation of criminal act should also be made in this House because they are not here to defend themselves. This is … (Interruption).
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I have said that if their act may not amount to corruption per se but it is a conflict of interest in the sense that they are councillors and they know that there is a need for a market in that area. Alright, now, you are in the office, the councillors’ office, there is a project here, which could bring benefit and profit to councils or to yourself if you apply in your own name or in your company’s name to yourself, then you will bring profit to yourself. Fair enough, if you are not a councillor, nothing wrong.
But if you are a councillor, then choosing between profit to yourself or profit to the organization which he belongs, I believe for us involved in politic, we should put the interest of the organization which we are serving as a politician above our own interest. That is what we called political morality, political morality. Of course, you can choose here, it may not amount to corruption but there is a choice now, to profit for your own personal profit or for the profit of the organization which you represent. In this case, it is council. Well they choose for their own profit, submit the project in their own name instead of in the name of the project, in the name of council. Had they choose it in the name of the council, the council could have made RM30 million but they decided to submit it in, in their own name. That is my case.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Tuan Speaker, this argument has been stated during your interaction of this matter. Now, the Member does accuse them of malpractices, malpractices stated in the hansard. Malpractices in law amount to criminal offence. The better course of action in this particular incident as alleged against the three councillors as they are not here to defend themselves, the option is opened to the members either to withdraw the accusation of malpractices or to give a fair hearing to all parties concerned who will advise Member for Kota Sentosa to repeat the exact and specific accusation against the three councillors and it is for them, it is for them to take whatever actions they deemed fit. It is no point for members here to debate on the issue when parties concerned are not available, detailed facts are not available.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: What I have said here was said many, many times during ceramah times and yet those are all reported, so I don’t see the necessity to repeat it again while it has been said over and over and over and they don’t come up to defend themselves. That is all. If you think that this is not a proper forum to debate on this, then you raise your case that is it.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Pujut.
Y.B. Encik Andy Chia Chu Fatt: The Honourable Member for Kota Sentosa had said that he had said the matters many times outside the Dewan, so I would urge him to say one more time outside the Dewan today. Thank you. (Applause).
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now in the case of allegation against SUPP, it is stated in the Hansard page 51, sorry, page 49, SUPP involved. Now as I said earlier, this House should never become a hideout for members to throw unfounded accusations and hide behind the privilege of freedom. As I said particularly that SUPP is no part involved in that, on behalf of SUPP, in order to clear the good name, we also would like Member for Kota Sentosa to repeat the exact accusation against SUPP outside the House or the matter be rest forever here and hold the tongues forever here.
Y.B. Encik Voon Lee Shan: Tuan Speaker, may I interrupt for a while. What I think it is clear from the records here is that they agreed as a whole what the Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa stated is that it was appointment only, the three were appointment, touching on the appointment only. That’s all.
Tuan Speaker: We have past that. Now the two Members are asking Member for Kota Sentosa whether he is prepared to repeat it outside the House today.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: You can be rest assured that this matter will be repeated.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Repeated?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: It will be raised again.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Outside the House?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Outside this House. Ya, you can be assured.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now, under the current nominated system, State Government will stand to account for the performance of the local authorities here. It has already sufficient built up checking system to safeguard the financial management of local authorities as explained in great length by the Honourable Member for Environment.
During our constant monitoring of their performance, we are able to take off inefficient or bad apples at any time by summary termination of their appointment. And we have done that. Whereas if councillors are elected, there will be no way of termination against those defaulting councillors because they as elected Members will continue to serve for the remaining period of their terms.
Now in many councils arrangement has also been made to assign different councillors to take care of different areas, many councils. And then the residents will know who the councillors responsible are. The area of jurisdiction of service by local authority in the State of Sarawak cover every inch of the land. Whereas the local authority in West Malaysia will basically cover urban or suburban areas or part of the districts.
For those who have eyes could definitely see the tremendous improvement in the quality of life as has been said much earlier. We have Members from a rural area, Members from Engkilili I believe, I believe were able to see the great services extended to the rural populations.
As for the urban area, as has been said much earlier, a great deal of quality of life has been improved. People appreciate the good performance in Kuching. Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa, being the MP for Kuching, should also be part of the efforts to help and to protect the image of Kuching.
We used to see Member of opposition going around pinpoint fingers at longkanglah. I remember many, many years ago when Barisan Members, Council Negeri Members went around together with the staff looking and visiting trying to improve the longkang, we have been ridiculed as Yang Berhormat Longkang.
Now, we have also seen Member from opposition doing exactly what we have been doing… (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yang Berhormat, in the event the local councillors are doing their job properly, in the event that the people now know how to contact them, in the event the people have their telephone numbers and be able to contact them I think there should not be any Yang Berhormat Longkang around.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): As I said earlierlah, many councils have the practice of assigning the councillors to do it.
Now, the duty of Members from opposition should not be confined just to get the photo, point their fingers, their service has to go beyond that. I would like to see them at the local authorities by doing follow up, by senior officers concerned, by talking to the rakyat.
There was a mention that one dengue case, one dengue … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yang Berhormat, before the dengue case is touched upon, Ahli Yang Berhormat seems to say that we should do more follow up. Yes, we do. We do a lot of follow ups. Just about a month ago, I was called to a place where the drains and ditches were seriously clogged. They were really badly clogged. I phoned up the local authority in Sibu. I phoned up the Chairman. I phoned up the person in charge of health. They didn’t bother to turn up to have a look. He expects us to follow up and yet they thought just because we are from opposition therefore they thought that it is not their job to cooperate with the opposition. I really appreciate the statement saying yes we should do the follow up. We should, and in fact, we will. I can assure you that. But please, in order to ensure that the people throughout Sarawak, the rate payers got some advantage from their rate payment, I think not only follow up has to be done, services for the benefit of the rakyat transcends political boundaries. We have to make sure that those people the rate payers are really looked after. Therefore, I must reiterate, yes we appreciate your statement, Ahli Yang Berhormat. And from now onwards hopefully whenever there are phone calls or letters coming request for assistance in a particular Kawasan, please there must be some directive that local councils should respond. What I got on that particular day, Tuan Speaker, and for the benefit of Ahli Yang Berhormat for Repok was, you must write in, in black and white, only then they would respond.
Now, in the event of flood for instance, you expect a wakil rakyat visiting their area seeing that the people, the residents are in big danger of you know probably drowning and yet you get a computer out or typewriter out, type out a letter of complaint send it in black and white to local council, of course you can’t expect to do that. We must be more responsive than that. Thank you, Ahli Yang Berhormat.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): There are hundreds and thousands of drains. State Government has been subsidizing the local authorities for all these roads, drains, parks, etc. maintenance because for a long time we did not increase the rates for or relevant to the services provided.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chien Jen: I don’t think that the government has not increased the rates, the assessment rates for a long time. It was increased for the last five years. I believe there was if I am not mistaken is two or three times. And I have a complaint here also. I received a notice of new assessment rates which is increased by four times based on new value, increased by two times based on new valuation.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Tuan Speaker, can I clarify here. I think a lot of people still do not know what it means by increase. Actually the assessment will be based on two things.
Tuan Speaker: Is your mic on?
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Assessment will be decided by two things. One is the ARV that is the Annual Rateable Value. Two, is the percentage of rate decided at the time.
The ARV was decided in 1966. The TONE. T.O.N.E. that is the technical term used in the list was decided in 1966. So I just want to tell you an example. If there is a residential house which has an area of, floor area of 1000 sq. ft. and the TONE in the list was decided RM1.00 per sq. ft. at that time, so that rate will be, the ARV will be 1000 x 1 that is RM1,000.00. And if that house was built in 1966, and at that time, they wanted to charge the rate, say 5%, so we times 5%. That is RM50.00. That will be the assessment.
But, if there is another house with the same floor are,a built last year in 2005, 1000 sq. ft, we still have to use the TONE in the list RM1.00 per sq. ft. But we cannot afford to charge 5% any more because there is a demand for increase in this increase in that. So that’s why the council started to increase from time to time the percentage charged. So if the percentage charge now is 28% then it is 1000 x 1 x 28% that is 280. So the house built in 1966 which has the same floor area and the house built last year with 1000 sq. ft. will have the same value, assessment 280 … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chien Jen: I … (Interruption)
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): Let me finish. You, let me finish. So this is the case in Sarawak. In the case of Semenanjung, actually we cannot really make comparison because the annual rate in Sarawak has never been reviewed since 1966. But in West Malaysia, most local authorities actually have reviewed their annual rate, the revaluation exercise once in every five years which was stipulated in the statutory provision. So if you say that the rates charged here is high much higher than those in Semenanjung, the actual assessment may not be higher. It may be lower than those charged in Semenanjung Malaysia. Thank you.
Tuan Speaker: I shall extend the sitting slightly beyond 6:30 to enable the voting. As soon as the Assistant Minister and Honourable Member finish, I will put the question. Please conclude your remarks.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I just seek clarification on what I have said just now. I have two houses, not mine. I have two houses adjacent to each other along the same street. One was constructed in 1980 completed constructing. One was constructed in 2000. Though the surface area may be the same, the later one maybe a bit bigger, but the ARV was 30% higher than the previous one, the one, the house that was completed in 1980 and when the owner went to appeal because once you have received the evaluation, went to appeal to council on the Annual Rateable Value on the difference, they were informed that because your house was built later and is slightly bigger and also two reasons were given. One is slightly bigger and one is because your house was built later. So, I mean that was what was told by the MBKS officer because your house was built later therefore a higher rate was charged. So, I don’t think what the Honourable Minister has said is correct.
Menteri Alam Sekitar dan Kesihatan Awam (Y.B. Datuk Michael Manyin anak Jawong): What I said, I stand by because a consultant, the three valuers and all MPP, MBKS and DBKU practise the same system. The tone, they called it, that is the technical term the tone in the list is still the one that was decided in 1966. It has never been revised.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Member for Repok.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): In connection with the rate assessment collection, maybe it is a fortunate time to explain the formula and then to call upon the members of opposition to support the government when we do decide to go for revaluation exercise. Now, the factors is as follows:-
Properties completed before year 1966 will all be valued with its rateable value as at 1966. If a shophouse or a row of shophouse is subsequently built at the year 2005, the rentable or rateable value that this new shophouse could command will be at the prevailing market price or valued at year 2005. Now, the intention of government will be to value all those properties, all those properties, being their value updated to the year assuming that we do it say two years’ time, we will revalue it in two years’ time. So the rateable value will be more uniformed between two different rows of shophouses built of different times.
Now, by so doing, the property of rateable value will be higher, the council will be able to impose a lower percentage charges. There are two factors here. One is the value of the property and the other one is the percentage charge. We can lower the percentage charges if the value can be valued upwards. What is most importance is the ultimate assessment rate is payable. Now on the question of …(Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Yang Berhormat, Ahli Yang Berhormat was asking for support of the rateable value. Now, we have not seen any document from the government or local authority on how and in what manner those rateable values will be determined. Maybe Ahli Yang Berhormat would be kind enough to forward to us those complete documents for us to really study. We just cannot stand up here and say “look, cannot. We are going to give you our support or we are going to give you our opposition.” We don’t do that. We must study those papers in black and white. On the other hand, we talk about 1966 value. But if those houses built in 1966, were built, lets say, in some areas of Bukit Assek only half a house left. We can’t blame it, support something which we have not seen. So please give us the documents. We will just study that and I will guarantee you our party will study that very conscientiously and in the event that it is worth support, we will give you our support. In the event that you are able to entertain us with our views, we shall do so. Thank you.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can we move on to another subject brought up by Ahli Yang Berhormat for Kota Sentosa. He was mentioning the case of dengue fever. Attributed that it was the blocked drain. The drain being blocked.
Now, the dengue fever known is caused by Aedes mosquitoes which will breed in clear, clean and stagnant water. The peaty soil condition of the land here do cause some difficulty in the natural flow of water. I will look at Singapore which is supposed to be cleaner, that is supposed to have maintained the drains well and last year they have an upgrade case of 10,000 cases of dengue fever in Singapore. So these dengue cases could not be attributed solely to the blocking of drains.
I would also like the members of the opposition to help governments to educate our publics. Many of these road potholes, many of these drains being blocked is not because councils or its contractors are not doing a good job. There are many times it is the public spirit or civic-minded problems, the culture of our rakyat. So as part of the component in ensuring the well being of the environment, member of opposition should not just point at the drain and put exclusively the blame on the government. There are hundreds and thousands of drains, there are thousand of kilometers of roads and a lot of them have been well maintained. Rakyat has appreciated in silence in most of the times of the services, efforts made government. Members of this House should be honourable enough sometimes to extend some credits to the government when credits are due.
Before I end, I would urge the members of this Dewan to reject this motion … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: There are some more clarifications.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Ya. There are things that council may do right but what we are saying here is now we want a better system whereby there is truly transparency accountability, accountability. As it is now the councillors that are appointed, they are accountable to the party which has recommended their appointment. Not accountable to the people directly. That is why … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: One more question.
Tuan Speaker: Ahli Yang Berhormat, you mentioned that yesterday.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I just … (Interruption)
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Can I just carry on?
Tuan Speaker: Ya.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Now, Barisan State Government here stands accountable for the performance of our local authority. We stand accountable and we will be responsible to monitor to ensure that the performance and services provided meeting the standards of our Barisan Nasional.
Now, before I sit down, there is one statement which I wish Ahli Yang Berhormat bagi Kota Sentosa to respond. During your debate with the Yang Berhormat Minister for Environment, you alleged that SUPP is threatening the security of the State. Now this is a very, very serious, damaging and hurting statement. I would like to call members whether you wish to withdraw this very damaging, serious, baseless statement or you repeat it outside the House and substantiate your allegations. In fact, you cannot make any baseless, this is a very serious allegation against the party who was threatening the security and peace of the State. We can be regarded as treason.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: I was talking about history. We can refer to history, alright? We can refer to history but it takes a historian to study whether … (Interruption)
Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan Menteri Pemodenan Pertanian dan Menteri Pembangunan Perindustrian (Y.B. Datuk Patinggi Tan Sri Dr. George Chan Hon Nam): Don’t beat around the bush. Please answer the question.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: No, no. I was referring here. I was referring to history at that time. The SUPP were threatened.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Very simple.
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Yes.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Could you repeat the same allegation outside the House during the press conference?
Y.B. Encik Chong Chieng Jen: Alright. Wait and see.
Menteri Muda Industri Makanan dan Menteri Muda Kerajaan Tempatan (Y.B. Datuk David Teng Lung Chi): Alright.
Tuan Speaker: Honourable Members, the motion in the name of Yang Berhormat Encik Chong Chieng Jen for Kota Sentosa. I shall now put the question. The question is that the State Government restores the Local Government election to ensure accountability, transparency and avoidance of corruption amongst the Local Government in Sarawak.
Question put and Motion rejected
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Tuan Speaker, I ask for a division.
Tuan Speaker: Division is at the discretion of the Speaker if there is a request of ten votes, ten members.
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: 10:10, is this the discretion of the Speaker?
Tuan Speaker: How many? Under Standing Order 41, is just by majority, it is no need for a division. So I rule there is no need for a division. Sitting … (Interruption)
Y.B. Encik Wong Ho Leng: Are you ruling on that?
Tuan Speaker: Sitting is suspended. We resume our meeting at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning.
(Mesyuarat ditangguhkan pada jam 6:41 petang)
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